26 January 2022

The Boy Abunda Presidential Interviews, 2022 (Lacson)

source: https://youtu.be/QejG5ruat9g
disclaimer: this is not an official transcript.
average reading time: 38 mins

note:
before remarking on errors,
check the audio from source first.

Boy: Good evening and welcome. Our guest tonight, Senator Ping Lacson.

Lacson: Magandang gabi, Boy, and thank you for having me.

Boy: Let's begin the interview. Let's start with the environment. Environment, specifically, mining, which is one of the most controversial environmental issues. Nung Abril 2021, President Duterte lifted the 9-year moratorium on granting new permits for mining. Samantala, December 2021, DENR, the Department of Environment and Natural Resources also lifted the ban on open-pit mining, sa pamamagitan ng Administrative Order No. 2021-40. Pinuri po ito ng mining industries, samantala, binatikos ito ng mga environment and human rights defenders. Ang aking katanungan, Senator Ping, you are applying to become the next President of the Republic of the Philippines. If elected, pagtitibayin mo ba ang mga desisyong ito ni President Duterte at ng DENR, o ipapawalang-bisa?

Lacson: Unang-una, ang bottom line is responsible mining, ano? Basta't tumutugon dun sa mga issues, mga challenges sa environment. Ang mining industry, hindi naman puwedeng patayin, kasi major industry ito ng Pilipinas. Ang masama, Boy, yung small-scale mining, ano? While sinasabing small-scale, pick and shovel, hindi naman nagagawa e, so nandun ang maraming violations, kaya yung environment is put on at risk, ano? Yun ang problema, so hindi ito kung itutuloy o ipagbabawal, dapat data-driven lagi ito, at saka science-based yung lahat ng pag-aaral. Maski anong endeavor natin, hindi lang sa mining, dapat ganun e.

Boy: Data-driven... 

Lacson: Data-driven and science-based lagi ang, nakabase yung ating desisyon.

Boy: Babalikan ko lamang po yung aking katanungan. Dahil nga dalawa ang nilift na ban, yoong paggrant ng mga new mining permits at saka yung open-pit mining, specifically, ano po ang inyong comment doon sa dalawang 'yon, yung paglift nung bans na 'yon?

Lacons: Well, tama lang na ilift ang ban kasi matagal na ring, kung merong mga new permits na iiissue, basta't sa akin, ang bottom line is kailangan, responsible mining, at kung merong mga violations along the way, walang patumangga na dapat ipatupad. Ang problema rin kasi, yung bureaucracy, 'no, nandiyan na yung issue ng corruption, kapag naglagay, o kaya nakiusap, at malapit, yun ang napagbibigyan, in spite of so many violations, so dapat isa lang yung standard, 'no, mapamining man, mapaibang...

Boy: Okay. In the discussion about sustainable mining, doon pa rin nangyayari, kumbaga, 'pag pagkukuwentuhan natin, Senador, ay yung claims, halimbawa, ng mga environmentalists, yung pagkasira ng natural habitat, yung biodiversity laws, water pollution, and we're talking about may mga binigyan ng mga permiso, may mga ligal na operators, and these are sustainable miners and responsible miners, pero marami pa rin ang nahaharass na mga locals, marami pa rin ang nadidisplace na mga IPs, indigenous peoples. Comment.

Lacson: Then nakalabas yun dun sa sinasabing responsible mining.

Boy: Ito yung data na sinasabi mo...

Lacson: Yes.

Boy: Na if yung one has a permit, tapos ito ang ginagawa, what would you do?

Lacson: Dapat ipasara kaagad, ano? Of course, due process should be followed. Ang problema nga, ang naging kalakaran sa ating pamahalaan, sa ating bansa, ano, parang yung palakasan system lagi. Kung sinong may koneksyon, tapos sino yung malakas maglagay, alam naman natin 'yan, Boy, e. Maski kumausap tayo ng pangkaraniwang tao, o kaya yung taong nasa gobyerno, alam nila yung nangyayari. Alam mo, implementasyon talaga ang problema.

Boy: How do you solve that? I know the problem is in implementation but on the ground, ano ang solusyon diyan?

Lacson: Well, diyan natin kailangan yung mga NGOs, ano, na tagabantay, yung mga environmentalists, ano, but, of course, it should be evidence-based. Hindi naman pupupuwedeng say-so, mag-aakto yung gobyerno, kailangan talaga, sabi ko nga kanina, lagi tayong dapat babalik sa data-driven, kung ano man yung desisyon, kung ano man yung subsequent action natin, ibase natin sa datos na maliwanag.

Boy: Senador, kadalasan din naman, hindi naman lahat, kadalasan naman, ang problema din, nangyayari doon sa imbestigasyon, sa gathering of data, doon din minsan nagkakaroon ng problema.

Lacson: That's exactly my point, kasi kailangan isang standard lamang, kasi 'pag nagdouble standard tayo, iba yun treatment dun sa kaalyado, at iba yun treatment sa hindi kilala or sa kalaban sa pulitika, diyan na tayo talagang...

Boy: So, in terms of mechanism, in terms of system, ano ang dapat gawin para iisa lamang ang standard?

Lacson: Nasa nag-iimplementa yun e, Boy. Kailangan talaga ipakita, diyan nga makikita natin yung, ako, babalik pa 'ko, pupunta pa 'ko even further, 'no, yun tinatawag na leadership by example, kasi hindi pupuwedeng yung isang leader, yung sinasabi niya, yung pineapreach niya, hindi naman niya pinapractice. Sasabihin niya, responsible mining, pero pagka may kausap, iba naman yung kanyang iimplement. Sinong maniniwala? Over time, Boy, napakahabang panahon, nawala talaga yung tiwala ng mga kababayan natin sa ating gobyerno. Yun dapat ang maibalik e.

Boy: Election campaign kasalukuyan, Senator Ping, would you accept donations from miners?

Lacson: Yes, kung ligal naman yung mining company, at may permit at lahat, sumusunod, why not?

Boy: We're talking about track record, alam naman natin kung sino ang sumusunod sa batas at ang hindi sumusunod sa batas.

Lacson: Yes, basta't hindi iligal at saka yung nagviviolate ng batas at meron kang issue doon sa, ginawa namin 'to, Boy, a, hindi lahat ng donations, tinatanggap namin. Talagang...

Boy: At ang inyong tinatanggihan ay...

Lacson: Ay, pagka medyo, halimbawa, may conflict of interest, 'no, halimbawa, merong nakapending na legislative franchise.

Boy: From the environment, punta naman ho tayo, Senador, sa COVID-19. Let's talk about the pandemic. Sa kasalukuyan, dalawang bagay po ang alam natin. Una, mahigit dalawang taon na tayo'y lahat pinadapa ng pandemyang ito. Sabi ng DOH, mahigit sa three million cases na ang nangyari dito sa bansa, over fifty thousand deaths. Sabi naman ng John Hopkins COVID-19 dashboard, three hundred million cases, over three hundred million cases around the world and more than five million deaths globally. Maraming mga Pilipino po ang nawalan ng trabaho, kabuhayan, mga mahal sa buhay. Ito po yung una. Alam ho natin that this pandemic is vicious. Pangalawa, alam din natin na ang virus na ito ay napakaunpredictable. Dalawang taon na na ito'y nilalabanan natin. Maraming mga variants na ho ang ating naririnig, mula sa Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Delta Plus, Omicron, the virus acquires genetic changes, which means it mutates, paano, kailan, hindi natin alam. Ang klaro lamang ay it is killing people, it is vicious, and it is unpredictable. Ang aking katanungan po, Senador, given the unpredictability and the viciousness of this virus, 'pag kayo'y nakaupo bilang Presidente, at ito ang sasalubong ho sa inyo, ano po ang inyong programa?

Lacson: Unang-una, kailangang proactive, kasi ang nangyari sa 'tin, 'di ba, Boy, noong February yata ito, yung Wuhan couple, na kung saan, sumakay ng eroplano, from Cebu to Dumaguete to Manila. Alam ng DOH, alam ng authorities ito na silang dalawa, afflicted, ano, ng COVID. Tinanong namin sa aming Senate hearing, 'Nagawa niyo na ba yung contact tracing? Kilala naman niyo yung mga pasahero, 'di ba? Kayang contactin.' Alam mo ang sagot sa 'min? Seventeen percent lamang yung kanilang nacontact. Do'n nagsimulang kumalat yung COVID e. Hindi tayo marunong maging proactive. Wala tayong foresight. Pagkatapos, ano sumunod? 'Di ba, hindi natin pinagbawalan yung mga turista galing Tsina, kasi kaibigan daw natin yung Tsina. Yun ang mga pagkakamali natin nung una pa. Itong Omicron, 'di ba alam na natin, meron sa Europe, meron sa Amerika? Bakit hindi pa rin natin nasawata, ano? Nagkakasya tayo dun sa, nagrereact na lang tayo kung ano mangyayari. So, sinasabi na walang kaso sa Pilipinas, good, walang kaso, pero may ginawa ba tayo para talagang hindi magkaroon ng kaso o hindi makapasok? Ngayon, ilan na tayo? Thirty thousand. Marami tayong pagkakamali. Hindi na tayo natuto sa ating mga pagkakamali. Pangalawa, una pa man, noon pa lang bago nauuso yung vaccination, alam ko ito kasi kausap ko yung mga business sector, yung mga malalaking negosyo, nag-offer sila, 'Kami nang bibili para sa aming mga empleyado.' Anong ginawa nung gobyerno? Overregulation. Sa halip na maging friendly, sa halip na iencourage, pinapahirapan, 'Hindi, dadaan kayo sa 'min.' Yung LGU, nag-offer na rin, yung mga mayayamang LGU, may pera sila. Nag-offer na rin sila kung puwedeng makabili sila ng bakuna para sa... Just imagine, Boy, kung pinayagan nila 'yon. Tinulungan, sa halip na barahan, tinulungan nila. Baka hindi ganyan karami yung problema natin. Ang tinamaan natin, kabuhayan. The thing is, there's no trade-off between health and economy. Wala e, wala kang pagpipilian so dapat maging proactive, first and foremost. Kailangang mag-anticipate, and then put the right persons sa tamang position, skills matching. PhilHealth, bakit NBI director ang naandiyan? Bakit retired military? Sa akin, kung hindi man may background sa health, ano, sector, kailangan, finance man ang naandiyan, health insurance 'yan e. Anong nangyari? Fourteen billion pesos ang nawala sa kalokohan nung nag-imbestiga kami, at katunayan, binigay ko lahat kay Secretary Guevarra yung aming committee of the whole, mga dokumento, mga testimonies, kaya may nakasakdal ngayon sa Ombudsman...

Boy: Because sa Senado.

Lacson: Because of the Senate. Anong nangyari? Hanggang ngayon, pending sa Ombudsman, ni hindi man lang umaakyat sa Sandiganbayan. Anlinaw ng mga ebidensya dun, Boy. Ito'y nakakadiscourage, sa sistema ng ating, sabihin nating governance or pulitika. Again, babalik ako dun sa sinabi ko nung una, kailangang isa lang ang standard. Hindi pupuwendeng 'pag malapit sa administration, medyo malambot. Sa akin, ako a, I've been known for this, Boy, ano? Nung Chief PNP ako, isa lang ang standard, kaya napatino ko yung pulis nun e, at tsaka leadership by example. Sinabi ko kanila, ''Wag kayong mangotong,' hindi ako tumatanggap ng pera sa jueteng, hindi ako tumatanggap ng pera dun sa mga nagtatransact ng business sa... Alam nila ito, and alam nila, I meant business. Hanggang ngayon, sa Senate, 'yan ang ginagawa ko, Boy.

Boy: Okay. Having said that, Senador, yung iyong napakaklarong enumeration ng mga pagkakamali ng how we handled COVID, mula doon sa Wuhan, yung couple, doon sa pahirapan na nagpepresentang private sector na, 'Kami na ang bibili,' putting the right people, as President, ano yung una? Ano yung una mong gagawin pagpasok na pagpasok bilang Presidente?

Lacson: Well, internal cleansing, ano, honest-to-goodness. Ginawa ko rin sa PNP ito. Hindi ka makakapagsimula sa labas e. Alam mo, publiko, susunod lang sa gobyerno. We have 1.4 million government officials. Ako, I don't mind, I don't care kung maiwanan sa gobyerno, five hundred thousand, but yung five hundred thousand, hindi yung mga nagmamanicure, hindi yung hindi nag-aattend sa mga, dumudulog sa mga complaint nila, ito dapat yung panuntunan, yung mga honest at saka yung talagang nagtatrabaho. Naging employment agency yung ating gobyerno, Boy. Alam naman natin, contractuals, ang nangyayari, hindi naman nagiging efficient ang ating serbisyo-publiko.

Boy: Categorically, are you trying to say, Senator, that the COVID-handling of this government is a failure.

Lacson: Yes. Kita naman natin resulta e. Ako, laging output ang tinitingnan ko. I'm always output-driven, even sa mga staff ko, alam nila ito. Hindi ko kayo babantayan e. Ang titingnan ko, anong resulta ng ginawa ninyo, kasi hindi naman tayo, Boy, naandiyan everyday, twenty-four hours a day para magbantay. Ang bantayan natin, yung output, yung resulta. Maski sabihin mong 'pag nakita kita...

Boy: Senator Ping, let's talk about poverty. According to the Philippine Statistics Authority (PSA), ang mga walang trabaho, babalikan ko lang nang kaunti, October 2001, 3.27 million, October 2010, 2.79 million, October 2016, dalawang milyon, October 2021, 3.5 million. Ayon naman sa Social Weather Station (SWS), which means this is perception-based, third quarter of 2001, 9.3%, third quarter of 2010, 15.9%, third quarter of 2016, 10.6%, September 2021, 10% or around 2.5 million Filipinos ang nagugutom. Ang katanungan ko po, sa kasalukuyan, according to PSA, mayroon tayong 3.5 million Filipinos na walang trabaho, 2.5 million Filipinos na nagugutom, these are urgent problems, as President of the Republic of the Philippines, ano po ang inyong gagawin?

Lacson: Unang-una, ang bottom line dito, problema, corruption, 'di ba? Sa halip na magastos yung pera ng gobyerno para sa social services, livelihood, infrastructure, napupunta sa bulsa ng iilan. Okay, yung 4Ps, yung Pantawid Pampamilya, napakagandang programa, dapat ituloy ito, pero hindi pantawid, Boy, dapat pang-ahon. Hindi yung ayuda lamang for the sake of giving ayuda.

Boy: Dole outs.

Lacson: Oo, dole outs e, kasi nagkaro'n tayo ng dole out mentality, specially during elections. Nakaabang lagi yung mga botante, kung sino yung mas malakas magbigay, 'no, yun ang nahahalal. Now, yung Pantawid, balikan ko. Gawin nating Pang-ahon, meaning, bigyan mo sila ng tulong para sila'y umangat sa buhay, bigyan mo sila ng mga, icapacitate, ano, kasama yung, dapat sa programa, hindi lamang yun dole out na pangkain, kung hindi pangharness ng kanilang skills, para makaahon sila, makatawid sila dun sa kanilang kinalalagyan ngayon, at maging productive citizens, so dapat itweak 'yon, hindi lang, kasi 'pag sinabi mong pantawid, tatawid ka lang ng gutom e, pero 'pag sinabi mong pang-ahon, tutulungan mo para umangat yung kanyang katayuan sa buhay, at makapagtrabaho na siyang sarili niya, hindi na siya aasa sa gobyerno. Kung merong mga panibagong naghihirap na walang trabaho, doon natin ituon uli yung ating resources. Boy, ako, palausisa ako sa budget, ano, nakikita ko yung nasasayang na budget. Pinaestimate ko sa aking staff yung eighteen years ko na nagsuscrutinize ng budget, three hundred billion pala yung naipatipid ko sa gobyerno, 'no. Hindi ito, ngayon ko lang nasasabi 'to dahil, ano, nagkaroon kami ng isang pag-uugnayan dito na kung saan, nagkaroong pagkakataon, 'Estimate niyo nga, magkano yung mga natanggal ko, yung mga abusive na mga insertions,' umabot na pala ng three hundred billion. Ako mismo, hindi ko alam e.

Boy: Okay. I got also an estimate from Deputy Ombudsman Cyril Ramos. This is a general figure. Ang sabi niya ay ang napupunta sa kurapsyon ay twenty percent of the national budget, which is around seven hundred billion, so you can imagine what it can do to address problems of hunger and poverty.

Lacson: Boy, yun lang yung nawawala sa corruption a, yung unused. For the past ten years, 2010 hanggang 2020, alam mo magkano ang 'di nagagamit sa national budget? Three twenty-eight billion pesos per year on the average. Imagine, kung yung nagamit mo sa productive endeavors, livelihood, infrastructure, bakit hindi nagagamit? Ibang usapin ito, Boy, ano? Kasama sa plataporma namin yung budget reform. Kailangan talaga, ikalat natin sa mga kanayunan. Mahabang salaysayan 'yan, Boy, pero kasama sa plataporma namin 'yan. Hindi pupuwede yung sistema ngayon na ang budget, puro mga national government lang nagpapatupad. Wala, walang mangyayari doon.

Boy: Pag-usapan natin yung dalawang 'yon, corruption, bilang Presidente, Senador, ano ang iyong gagawin dahil laganap ito, pangalawa, meron pa namang impression ang tao, ang laymen katulad ko, halimbawa, na, 'Ay, 'pag unused budget, maganda pala 'yon.' Yun pala ay hindi. Can you please explain that.

Lacson: 'Pag unused budget, ibig sabihin, hindi mo nagamit pangsocial services, at saka pang-infrastructure, at saka livelihood. Sayang.

Boy: Dahil?

Lacson: Dahil mali ang pagpaplano e. Poor planning, hindi maimplementa, andiyan pa yung siningit na mga legislators, na hindi naman nagcocoordinate sa mga implementing agencies pa'no iimplement, at kung iimplement man, mali ang pag-implement. So, three hundred twenty-eight billion per year, imagine, Boy.

Boy: Right, and then let's go to corruption. Anong gagawin mo to address corruption?

Lacson: Boy, nagawa ko na, nung Chief PNP ako, talagang yung kotong, ineliminate ko. Nung ngayong senador ako, ginagawa ko pa rin, kaya nga marami akong kaaway e, even among legislators, fellow legislators, alam ko, asar sila sa 'kin e, kasi binabara ko yung mga insertions na alam kong hindi kayang ipatupad, or maipatupad man, mali ang pagpapatupad, dahil alam ko naman yun twenty percent e. Hindi nga ako kumukuha ng pork barrel, Boy, e, only because, alam mo, yung sa tingin ng ating mga kababayan, ang pork barrel, masama. Hindi naman masama, pero sa perception, lahat ng may pork barrel, kumukuha ng commission, kaya dinecide ko, hindi na lang ako kukuha ng pork barrel para kwentas klaras, alam nilang wala akong kumisyon.

Boy: Pero, Senador, kung hindi masama ang pork barrel, bakit hindi mo kinukuha?

Lacson: E, kasi nga, ang perception, lahat kumukuha ng...

Boy: A, because of the perception na lahat may...

Lacson: Yes, at least sa akin, kwentas klaras...

Boy: May SOP, 'ika nga.

Lacson: Yes, alam naman natin 'yan, Boy.

Boy: Oo, alam natin lahat 'yan, and naririnig natin, but alam din namin na hindi ka kumukuha ng iyong pork barrel. Mabilisan lamang, doon sa pantawid na pang-ahon na sinasabi mo, paano ang epektibong implementation ho noon?

Lacson: Well, kailangan, wala ring attendant na corruption, kasi 'yan talaga, ako, babalik at babalik tayo sa usaping kurapsyon, kasi 'yan talaga yung mula't sapul, maski noong nasa previous life ako, dun sa aking law enforcement service, 'yan talaga yung, sa tingin ko, 'yan talaga ang problema.

Boy: Okay. Senator Ping, let's go to the OFWs, the migrant Filipinos. Noong September 2019, ang estimated number of OFWs ay 2.2, ito yung estimate ng Philippine Statistics Authority. Puntahan naman natin ang mga remittances ng mga OFWs para malaman lamang natin yung kanilang contributions sa ekonomiya natin, 28.9 billion US dollars noong 2018, 30.1 billion US dollars noong 2019, 29.9 billion US dollars, 2020, 25.9 billion US dollars, October 2021. In 2018, remittances sent by OFWs accounted for eleven percent of the national GDP. Sa kabilang dako naman, Senator Ping, meron tinatawag na social cost, that's unquantifiable, that contributes, 'ika nga, to the destruction of the Filipino family. My question is kung ikaw ang mapipiling Presidente ng Pilipinas, how do you balance the economic contributions of the OFWs at itong tinatawag nating unquantifiable social cost that contributes sa pagkasira ng pamilyang Pilipino?

Lacson: Una, Boy, kailangan, may government intervention, ano? Tinatawag natin, mga bagong bayani, pero tinatrato ba natin silang bayani? 'Di ba, laging pagka, ni wala nga tayong programa sa retirement nila, halimbawa, natapos na yung contract, bumalik na sa Pilipinas. Minsan, wala tayong ayuda, wala tayong, ibig sabihin, wala tayong programa para sa kanila. Mabuti, Boy, at naipasa na yung Department, ano, of Migrant Workers. 'Yon, magandang step 'yon. Again, ang babantayan natin, implementation. Marami tayong batas na isinagawa na at ipinasa na napakagaganda. Pagdating sa implementasyon, diyan nagkakaloko-loko. So, magandang pakinggan, ano, puro platitudes. Dapat talaga, sundan ng talagang karampatang aksyon, 'no? May nakita yun, narinig tayong inaabuso na mga OFWs, 'no, yung social cost na sinasabi, yung unquantifiable, ano, diyan papasok yung government intervention. Boy, yung the world has become very small now because of the modern information or communication technology. Gamitin natin, iharness natin 'yan para masolve natin yung pangungulila, hindi lamang nung OFW, kundi yung mga naiwan dito. Diyan papasok ang government. Boy, yung GICT, ako yung nagsponsor ng budget diyan for three, four years, ano? Ang request nila, para mapaandar na yung national broadband program, meaning, mag-iimprove yung ating internet service, yung speed, ang hinihingi lang nila, eighteen billion pesos additional. Ako yung nagsponsor. Anong binigay ng national government? Two billion. Ang sabi nila, 'Walang mangyayari, kasi gusto namin, buuin na yung national broadband,' yung mismong highway, at mag-iimprove yung internet speed. Wala tayong ganun, Boy, e. R&D, research and development, alam mo ba, sa national budget, kung magkano lang nilalagak natin? 0.4 percent. 'Di ba puwedeng paabutin... Kaya tayo import nang import. Alam mo, Boy, yung ating research and development, Google. Tuwing may kailangan tayo, maggoo-Google, magshoshopping, e, andami natin mga ang galing na mga Pilipino na nangingibang bansa ta's binibili natin yung kanilang mga inventions doon pabalik sa Pilipinas. E, kung tinutulungan natin, dinagdagan natin yung R&D budget natin, paabutin man lang natin initially ng one percent, two percent. R&D, Boy, 'yan ang magbubuhay sa atin kasi pati manufacturing sector natin, mabubuhay diyan. Tayo ang magbebenta, hindi tayo ang bibili. Mali talaga yung mga polisiya, napakamali.

Boy. Okay. Senator, I wanted you to comment on this particular opinion, itong bagong bayani ay napakaganda naman dahil tunay naman talaga na bagong bayani ang ating mga OFWs dahil sa laki ng tulong na ibinibigay nila sa ating ekonomiya, but some people would claim na itong bagong bayani, normalizes the risks, you know, na pinagdadaanan ng ating mga OFWs abroad, and also it downplays the very reason as to why they went abroad, walang trabaho dito sa Pilipinas, so it romanticizes, itong pagtawag natin sa bagong bayani, aside from the fact na sinasabi niyo nga, tinatrato ba natin silang bagong bayani, but it also has that effect na nanonormal na yung, 'A, okay, kahit delikado ang buhay doon sa abroad, okay lang, kasi bagong bayani ka,' at pangalawa nga, yung nadodownplay yung, 'Bakit ka ba nag-abroad?' 'Di ba? Is it a choice, or talagang kailangang-kailangan?

Lacson: Kailangan kaysa sa choice e. Ganun actually, so babalik uli tayo. Gawin natin, sa halip na iexport natin yung labor, tulungan ng gobyerno. Kulang ayuda talaga ng gobyerno para mapromote yung ating lokal na mga industriya, manufacturing. MSMEs, ano? 99.5% 'yan ng kabuuan ng mga industries natin. Nung tinamaan ng pandemya, ang nawalang trabaho, 63.2% niyan, yun ang tinamaan. Anong ayuda binigay ng gobyerno? 'Di ba dapat meron tayong mga physical incentives, may mga, yung mga loans, kailangan, medyo tulungan ng gobyernong, para maextend yung kanilang mga, o kaya, mag-extend ng loans from the financial institution, LBP, o yung DBP, yung mga government banks. 'Di ba dapat may aksyon na gano'n?

Boy: At napakarami nang umuwi dahil nadisplace sa ibang bayan.

Lacson: Correct, correct, Boy. Lalong napadagdag pa, tama, oo.

Boy: Napakarami. Oo, napakarami, at saka ang isa pang epekto nito ay may negative effect nga, 'ika nga, ang influence nito sa educational aspirations din ng mga Pinoy. I'd like you to listen to this, Senator. May mga doktor na willing to be nurses. May mga guro, nagbebenta sa...

Lacson: Nagdomestic...

Boy: Nagdodomestic, o nagnananny. Hindi masama. Ang sinasabi natin, what happened to our educational aspirations?

Lacson: Ayan, kaya ang problema, Boy, everything boils down to government. Alam mo sinusunod kong panuntunan? The number one problem of our country is government, and the solution stares us right in the face of the problem itself. Government din ang solution, Boy, kasi for the longest time, talagang gobyerno lahat ang nagdadala e. Gobyerno ang problema, gobyerno ang solution, kaya sabi...

Boy: Let's go to social media, pero sa social media, Senador, ang pag-usapan natin ay cyber pornography. Noong 2021 year-in-review report, yung Pornhub, isang online adult video streaming website...

Lacson: Number one.

Boy: Sabi dito, ang mga Pinoy spend eleven minutes and thirty seconds watching porn, making the Philippines number one, over Japan and France. Some of the known social media sites, Twitter, Snapchat, meron mga Facebook groups ngayon na ginagamit bilang alternative porn sites. There is this young songwriter-singer, Billie Eilish, kuwento siya, eleven years old siya, una siyang naexpose sa porn, hanggang naaddict siya doon. Ang akala niya ay to be normal, you had to hook up and have multiple sex partners, violent ang sex, kasi yun ang kanyang napapanood, but in her own words, sabi niya, 'Porn destroyed my brain. I was devastated. I had nightmares and suffered from sleep paralysis. My mental health was damaged.' Of course, ngayon, siya'y twenty years old, and she is on her way to recovery. Ang aking tanong ay hypothetical. Nalaman at naconfirm mo, Senator Ping, na ang iyong menor de edad na anak ay addicted sa cyber porn. Bilang magulang, ano ang gagawin mo, at paano mo ito itatawid, itong kaalaman bilang magulang, sa polisiya bilang Presidente, on the welfare and protection of children?

Lacson: Kung dun sa unang sitwasyon, ano, bilang magulang, ako, I will seek the help of expert, ano, psychiatrist, kasi, alam mo, 'di ba, ang education system natin, ang basic, nagsisimula sa tahanan e, pero dahil nga sa katayuan natin sa buhay, minsan, wala yung tatay, wala yung nanay, nagtatrabaho, napapabayaan yung mga bata. Ngayon, 'pag umabot sa ganung punto, dapat talaga, we seek the help of experts. Sila mas nakakaalam e. Tayo, we can only give guidance as parents, pero dapat ipaubaya natin sa mga eksperto. Ngayon, sa malaki, larger picture, ganun din. Dapat meron tayong ahensya ng gobyerno na nakatutok dito, kasi hindi na biru-biro itong problema, na number one nga yung Pornhub sa Pilipinas, ano, so hindi ba dapat may alarm bell na ito sa ating mga awtoridad, na, 'Hey, gumawa tayo ng paraan,' magpull tayo ng ating mga resources, kunin natin yung mga eksperto sa field, pag-aralan natin, bakit ganito yung naging situation. Marami tuloy namomolestiya, marami tuloy mga kabataan, napapariwara ang buhay, so dapat proactive. Ang problema sa 'tin, sobra tayong reactive, Boy, mapaano pa mang problema. Naandiyan na yung problema bago tayo tumutugon. Mas maganda talaga yung unahan natin. We learn from the mistakes sa ibang bansa, 'no? Balik tayo, sa COVID, nanggaling sa ibang bansa e, Omicron, nanggaling sa ibang... Ba't hindi natin naanticipate? Alam naman natin. Ba't wala tayong ginagawa? Balik at balik tayo dun sa dapat yung leader, proactive mag-isip, hindi yung kung ano yung darating, saka mo lang tutugunan. Yun ang isang napakalaking pagkakamali ng ating mga leaders.

Boy: Sa'n nanggagaling 'yan, Senator Lacson? You've been talking about being proactive. Yung mindset na 'yan, sa 'yong palagay, bakit tayo nag-aantay lang? Bakit tayo nag-aantay na dumating bago tayo umaksyon?

Lacson: Naging kultura na, Boy, e, dahil nakagawian na.

Boy: Naging cultural ito.

Lacson: Yes, dapat baguhin natin yung mindset natin, sa gobyerno man, o sa pangkaraniwang mamamayan...

Boy: How?

Lacson: Well, diyan papasok na nga talaga yung intervention ng gobyerno, na 'pag meron tayong nakitang potentially lalaking problema, tulad yung Pornhub, 'di ba dapat ngayon, meron na tayong ginagawa? May ginagawa ba yung gobyerno, patungkol diyan sa binanggit mong istorya, o yung istatistika na yung Pornhub, number one? Alam natin lahat 'yan. May narinig ka bang move ang government, to at least prevent para lalo magproliferate or maistop? Hanggang ngayon, wala, Boy.

Boy: Yeah, that's part of social media, that's the internet, pero puntahan ko muna yung first point mo, Senador, yung as a parent, ako'y kokonsulta sa expert. Easier said than done. May mga magulang, hindi lahat, pero may mga magulang, nahihiya, natatakot. What do you tell them?

Lacson: Well, dapat bago lumaki yung problema, dapat tugunan na nila. Dito rin papasok yung mga intervention ng mga local government units, yung mga social workers, hindi ba, kasi wala, may disconnect between the government, whether ito'y local o national, at saka yung ating citizenry, kasi nga over time, nawala yung respeto, Boy, nawala yung tiwala...

Boy: Ng tao sa?

Lacson: Sa ating gobyerno. Yun ang dapat nating ibalik. Let's restore the trust, the respect, of our people, sa gobyerno. Without that trust, wala, anlaki ng disconnect, Boy. Pa'no mo magagain yung trust? It cannot be demanded. It should be earned. Ipakita ng gobyerno that it can lead and live by example. E, sino yung nagrerepresenta ng gobyerno? Yung mga leaders sa pamumuno ng Presidente mismo. Ang problema nga e, kung anong dinatnan na kalakaran, yun na rin ang tinutuloy. Wala nang gustong mag-isip.

Boy: Mm-hmm. Ang leadership style that you subscribe to is?

Lacson: Strong will, isa lang yung standard, tapos first and foremost, there's no substitute to this, Boy, leadership by example. Sabi ko nga, Boy, e, papa'no ko napahinto yung kotong cops, kasi alam nilang hindi ako tumatanggap e. Sabihin nila, 'E, ikaw, milyon nga tinatanggap mo sa jueteng, kami, pagbabawalan mong tumanggap ng one hundred pesos sa daan? Susundin ba kita?' Why was I successful in eliminating the kotong cops? Because they knew na pinaglabanan... Diyan nga kami nagkaro'n ng problema ni President Erap no'n, 'di ba? Earlier on, May 1998, tandang-tanda ko 'yon, we were discussing in his residence, ano, hindi pa siya nakatake oath.

Boy: Legalizing.

Lacson: Hindi lang legalizing. Tolerate, because ang unang sinabi niya sa 'kin, 'Anlaki ng utang na loob natin sa mga governors, mayors na tumulong sa atin, pagbigyan naman natin. Wala na silang pagkukunan. Bangkarote ang mamanahin nating gobyerno kay President Ramos. 'Yan lang ang puwede nating maitulong.' Sabi ko, 'Sir,' eto exact words a, 'Presidente ka na. Larong lupa 'yan. Diyan ka, Sir, madidisgrasya, sasabog tayo diyan.' True enough, prophetic. Boy, sa'n ba nagsimula yung downfall?

Boy: Senator Ping, let's go to abortion, pero specifically, rape-related abortion. Ito yung data mula sa Philippine Safe Abortion Advocacy Network at EnGendeRights, Inc., one Filipino woman and girl is raped every seventy-five minutes, about one in every eight Filipino women, who resorts to abortion, is a rape survivor, seventy women induce abortion every hour, complications from unsafe abortion is one of the five leading causes of maternal death and a leading cause of hospitalization in the Philippines, 2012 alone, six hundred ten Filipino women induced abortion, over a hundred thousand women were hospitalized and a thousand women died because of unsafe abortion complications, kasi wala ngang access to safe abortion in the country, at least three women die everyday from unsafe abortion complications. Katanungan namin, Senador Ping, kung ikaw ang magiging Presidente ng Pilipinas, do you think it is time to enact a law on abortion that would allow pregnant rape victims the choice of legal and safe abortion?

Lacson: Boy, I'll be honest, ano, I don't think I'm prepared to answer that, ano, kasi lacking ako ng data. Kailangan, malaman natin, ano yung far-reaching implication, 'no, dun sa babaeng narape at hindi puwedeng magpaabort, ano yung naging consequence, long-term a, hindi lang yung short-term. Kailangan, pag-aralan natin ito base sa mga datos na available. Kailangan, pag-aralan ito base sa mga pakikipag-ugnayan, pagkonsulta sa mga eksperto, mga psychologist, at kung sinu-sino pa, kaya ang sagot ko nga, initially, I don't think I'm prepared to make a decision, even as we speak now, yung tungkol sa bagay na 'yan.

Boy: Pagkuwentuhan lang natin, kasi ngayon, sa ating bayan, wala tayong batas on abortion but there's such a thing as therapeutic abortion, meaning, na ang mga doktor, halimbawa, doctors in the process of delivering a baby at nasa peligro ang buhay ng nanay, to save the mother, the mother's life, at ang unfortunate happenstance is fetal abortion, ay hindi ito kawsa para iprosecute ang mga doctors. That's what we have today, oo. Wala tayong pormal na batas, pero ito'y yung therapeutic abortion, pero let's go personal, Senator, rape victim, nabuntis dahil sa tatay, dahil sa, there was this story, isang doktor, siya'y pinaaral ng isang sponsor, nirape siya, a woman with dwarfism ay nabuntis, may mga bata, twelve years old, nabubuntis dahil ginahasa ng kapitbahay, on the personal level, let's not go policy, on the personal level, ano sa palagay mo ang gagawin mo?

Lacson: Sa personal level, sa tingin ko, 'wag iabort, pero mag-intervene ang government kung papa'nong mapapalaki yung bata at papa'nong mawawala yun trauma dun sa nanay. Maybe, with some government intervention, na choice nung bata kung gusto niyang akuin yung kanyang anak or ipaubaya sa isang social services institution, ano, na kung saan, lalaki nang matino ang bata, pero wala sa kargo ng kanyang magulang. I think they should be, initially, on a personal level, because, you know...

Boy: Bago aralin nga ng mga experts na sinasabi mo.

Lacson: Yes, yes, pero dapat, initially, yun ang aking, sabihin nating, instinctive na reponse sa tanong mo, Boy, ano, dahil sa akin, ang bottom line, an unborn child, buhay pa rin 'yan e, 'di ba? Tumitibok na 'yan e. No matter the consequences, or no matter the circumstances behind yung bakit nabuo yung bata na 'yon, e, dapat yun ang tingnan natin, yun ang pinakabottom line sa 'kin, but then there's so many, maraming mga scenarios na puwede nating, sabi mo nga, yung choice between the life of the mother and the child, sa akin, ang response ko do'n, it should be their choice, kasi kung gusto nila iligtas yung, maraming ganyang situation, Boy, a, ang pinapipili, yung pamilya mismo, sinong gustong iligtas, kasi definitely, mamamatay yung isa sa kanila.

Boy: Ang nanay o ang bata.

Lacson: Sa akin, ibigay yung choice sa pamilya, kasi kanilang choice 'yon, kung sino ililigtas, kung sino yung...

Boy: Itong opinyon na ito, Senador, may kinalaman ba ito sa iyong relihiyon, sa ating relihiyon?

Lacson: Sa...

Boy: In faith.

Lacson: Sa aking ina, sa aking ina na talagang napakarelihiyosa, na natatandaan ko, akay-akay kaming magkakapatid, basta't Linggo, without fail, pupunta't pupunta kami sa simbahan dun sa Imus.

Boy: Na napakagandang simbahan. Ito'y napapag-usapan lamang globally kasi ay iba't iba ang pamantayan, may mga bayan na request lamang ng babae, puwede ang abortion, meron naman, extreme cases ay pinapayagan, iba-iba, iba-iba ang debate nila doon. Alam mo naman siguro, Senador, halimbawa, sa America, 'pag democrat ka, alam mo yung pro-choice, sa kabila naman ay pro-life, so, siguro, maaari ito, 'pag ika'y naging Presidente ay aralin, kung ano ang pananaw, the best, you know, opinions, ideas, from countries around the world.

Lacson: Estados Unidos nga lang, iba-ibang states, iba-iba yung batas nila tungkol sa abortion e.

Boy: Mm-mm. Narinig ko na sa ibang bansa, depende kung gaano, ilang buwan, isang trimester, may mga gano'n, na kinokonsidera nila na may buhay na, so iba-iba, there are peculiarities, I think, which are also culture-based, oo, pero bottom line, ang iyong stand, Senador, ay?

Lacson: Yung buhay ng unborn child, buhay yun e, Boy, kaya lang, napakarami ngang mga variations na dapat pag-aralan natin.

Boy: Okay. Mula abortion, punta tayo sa drugs. I will read a quote from the President, President Duterte, 'I feel so bad about all of these things kasi nalaman ko, paano ko makontrol in three to six months? Ang mga generals na pulis, nandiyan, tapos yung mga Bureau of Customs na inaasahan ko, PI, nasa droga. How will I succeed? E, nasa droga, alam ko na nagkamali ako, nagkamali talaga ako. Now, magtanong kayo, ang Pilipinas, are we or are we not a narco-country? Yes we are. Sabi ko, tama yung silang mga kritiko ko, 'E, sabi mo, noong nag-Presidente ka, three to six months.' Hindi ko alam. Pagpasok ko, e, Davao lang kasi ako, so ang template ko, Davao. May droga, pero sabi ko, maglaro ka doon, patay ka talaga. Give me another six months. That self-imposed time of three to six months, well, I did not realize how severe and how serious the problem of drug menace in the Republic until I became President.' Ang aking katanungan, Senator Ping, you are applying to be the President of the country, how much do you know about illegal drugs in this country? Gaano kalala ito? Are we or are we not a narco-country? Depende sa iyong kaalaman tungkol sa problema ng illegal drugs, ano ang programa mo laban dito?

Lacson: I don't think we have reached that point, ano, na narco...

Boy: Being a narco-country.

Lacson: Yeah, hindi. Hindi pa tayo Mexico, hindi tayo Colombia. Napakalayo pa, Boy, ano, kaya lang, he ran on a platform of, you know, anti-illegal drugs, and do'n siya nanalo, sa kanyang plataporma. Ang mali niyang ginawa kasi, ba't siya nagself-impose deadline? Alam naman natin, yung drug problem is here to stay. Mahirap sabihing zero. Anyway, sa aking programa, ang isang pagkakamali na nakita ko sa pagpapatupad ng anti-illegal drug campaign ng gobyernong ito, nafocus sa law enforcement, Boy. Nakalimutan yung prevention, nakalimutan yung rehabilitation. Matagal namin pinag-usapan ni Senate President Sotto ito, at katunayan, sa usapan namin, kung kaming dalawa ang parehong papalarin, he will handle, ano, being Vice President, sabi niya, 'Iwanan mo sa 'kin 'yang illegal drugs. Alam na alam ko 'yan,' because he was once the Dangerous Drugs Board chairman, and siya yung nag-author ng Dangerous Drugs Act, 'no, pati yung mga amendatory laws, nandiyan siya lagi, at naniniwala ako sa kanya. Sabi niya, sobra sa law enforcement, kulang sa prevention, yung demand reduction at saka yung supply reduction. Sa'n ba nanggagaling yung drugs, Boy? Sa Customs. Nakakahuli tayo ng sampung kilo, isandaang kilo na, sabihin natin. Ilan yun lumalabas sa Customs? Tonelada. Valenzuela, yung, napakaraming gan'tong situation, ang nahuhuli ng mga operatives natin, yung mga nakalusot na, pero yung nasa labas na, 'no, at tsaka yun lang nasundan nila. Ilan yung mga hindi nila nahuli? Again, corruption. Wala tayo, kaya nga ako, I'm always battling for, advocating for digitalization of all government processes. Nagpasa tayo ng batas, Customs Modernization and Tariff Act, kasama ng computerization, dapat automation. Ang nangyayari, ayaw mag-automate, kasi mawawala yung human intervention. Bakit may human intervention? Kasi may lagayan. Iautomate natin 'yan. Bakit ang record ng China, ng South Korea, ng Japan, ng US, yung export record nila, sa kanila? 'Pag sinabing sampung bilyon ang naexport nila sa Pilipinas, pagdating sa record natin, ang import record natin, wala pang limang bilyon, dollars. Bakit? Misdeclaration. Ayaw natin, sila, automated, tayo, hindi automated.

Boy: Misdeclaration, at ito'y napupunta saan?

Lacson: Sa bulsa, kasi 'pag nakatawad sa tax, sa'n pupunta yung dapat na bawas, o yung bahagi ng nabawas? Sa bulsa ng mga corrupt na Customs officials. Bakit ayaw nating mag-automate? Ako, sa kasama sa plataporma namin, Boy, digitalization of all government processes. Wala nang human intervention.

Boy: Okay. Senator, doon sa prevention, how do you intend to do it?

Lacson: Well, education, information. Alam mo, nung panahon ni President Erap, nagpapunta kami rito ng mga Los Angeles police, at tinuruan yung mga pulis natin para pumunta sa mga eskuwelahan, mga elementary students ito, sila yun naglelecture para, hindi naman kasama sa, anong masamang epekto ng drugs, so earlier on, sa murang kaisipan, namumulat sila. Meron silang mga visual aids, ano, kung saan, 'Eto yung kahihinatnan ninyo kapagka yun nalulong sa droga,' so nakatanim sa isip ng mga kabataan 'yon. Sayang, hindi natuloy. Ang tawag namin do'n, DARE, yung...

Boy: Naalala ko 'yon. Did it work?

Lacson: Yeah, it worked at that time, kasi tumaas pa yung pagtingin ng ating mga kabataan, ng mga estudyante, pati mga magulang sa pulis. Imagine, yun pulis mismo, nakauniporme ta's naglelecture na eto yung... E, 'di ba, over time, Boy, parang nabuo na sa kaisipan ng mga kababayan natin, 'E, pulis nga yung involved sa drugs e,' at noong nagsimula yung illegal drugs campaign ni Pangulong Duterte, alam mo yun nalaman namin, kaya andaming natokhang, yung mga runner ng mga pulis yung mga unang napatay. Nangyari ito, aktwal, Boy, sa isang pagdinig namin sa Antipolo, umiiyak yung mga magulang, 'Pinatay nila ang anak ko. Ang pumatay sa anak ko, 'yan yung alam ko na nag-uutos sa anak ko na maging runner nung mga drugs na nirecycle.' Nahuli ng pulis, sa halip na ibigay yung buong, yung ebidensiya, binabawasan. Boy, during my time, PACC kami no'n...

Boy: I was about to say that, during your time...

Lacson: Yes. Thirty million, thirty thousand, thirty kilograms, pinakamalaki at that time, ano, yun nakuha namin. Ako, literally, I slept with that evidence.

Boy: Because?

Lacson: E, baka mapilfer e. Dinalaw nga ako nina ano no'n, nina, tatlo e, tatlo yung mga, sina Julie Abdasa and two other...

Boy: Para?

Lacson: Hindi. Tinanong, kasi malaking issue yun e, pinakamalaking huli, tinatanong, inimbestigahan nila, 'General, nasa'n ho yung nahuli niyo? Baka ho napipilfer.'

Boy: Senator, let's talk about Philippine debt, utang. I'd like you to listen to these data from the Bureau of the Treasury. Nang matapos ang termino ni President Erap, ang utang ng Pilipinas ay 2.6 trillion pesos. Pagkatapos ng termino ni President Arroyo, umakyat ito to 5.1 trillion pesos. Umabot sa 6.5 trillion pesos nang matapos ang term ni President Aquino. As of end November 2021, ngayong administrasyong Duterte, total Philippine debt is 11.93 trillion pesos. Naririnig ko ito madalas, na ang bata, hindi pa ipinapanganak, ang bata ay nagbabayad na ng utang. My question is kung ikaw ang papalaring manalo bilang Presidente ng Pilipinas, how do you intend to pay our national debt.

Lacson: Ibalance yung budget, meaning, kung ano lang yung pangangailangan para umandar yung ating ekonomiya, makapagbigay tayo ng social services, ng livelihood, yun lang dapat. Alam mo, taun-taon, bakit tayo akyat nang akyat ng ating national budget? Nasa five trillion na tayo ngayon. Alam mo, noong unang budget year ni Pangulong Arroyo, natandaan ko 'yon, nung 2001, alam mo magkano lang national budget natin? Eight hundred billion pesos, naging one trillion, naging 1.4, naging 1.9, abot na ng five trillion. Boy, gumala tayo. Umuwi ka ng Borongan, mag-Bailan ka, commensurate ba sa itinaas ng budget natin yung nakita mo sa kapaligiran, sa kabuhayan ng ating mga kababayan? Hindi. Bakit? Nasasayang, nananakaw, sa corruption, so sa 'kin, ang unang gagawin ko, ibalance yung budget. How? Alam na natin na three hundred twenty-eight billion pesos on the average per year ang hindi nagagamit. E, 'di unang, kaltasin na muna natin yun, nang sa ganun, mabalance yung ating budget, kung ano yung pangangailangan, yun lang dapat, and then alisin natin yun mga wastage, yung mga leakages, ano? Dalawa tama natin e, expenditure side, revenue side, andaming leakages sa pagkolekta ng revenues, andaming leakages sa paggastos ng kaban ng bayan. Dapat ibalanse, kaya nga yun sa budget reform na sinasabi ko, Boy, dapat zero-based tayo, parang big corporations. Alam mo tayo, budget ceiling e. Sabihin ng DBM, 'Eto yung budget ceiling ng DPWH, hanggang six hundred billion kayo so 'yan ang isubmit niyo.' Ano gagawin ng DPWH, and the other agencies? Well, 'Taasan pa natin nang kaunti,' kasi tatawad pa 'yan. Kulang sa planning. Magzero-based tayo. Ijustify niyo lahat yung pagkakagastos niyo diyan, lahat ng mga, tawag natin diyan, PPAs, ano, Programs, Projects, Activities, ijustify mo lahat. Hindi tayo aabot ng five trillion, so judicious spending, tapos, again, babalik na naman ako, corruption. Alam mo, si Lolo Narding, 'di ba, nakulong nang ilang araw, sampung araw, nagnakaw ng mangga. Yung mga nagnakaw ng milyones, at tuloy na nagnanakaw, nasa'n sila ngayon? May mga police escorts, VIP, pero mga magnanakaw.

Boy: Anong gagawin mo sa kanila?

Lacson: E, dapat ikulong e. Walang nakukulong e. May nakulong na ba? May nakulong, pero, wala.

Boy: And when you become President, Senator Ping, iisa-isahin mo 'yan? Kasi kilala naman natin 'yan e.

Lacson: On one standard. Yes. Ako, alam mo, eto a, ito, personal na ito, Boy, ano? Sisimulan ko 'yan dun sa alam kong walang magrereklamo, walang magkukuwestiyon...

Boy: Walang kaduda-duda, 'ika nga.

Lacson: Oo. Yung, pa'no 'pag sinabi, 'Pulitika 'yan.' Sisimulan ko 'yan yun sa alam kong talamak na kilalang-kilalang magnanakaw, 'yan ang sample muna. Ke kapartido mo, ke hindi, 'yan ang unahin mo, and see its logical conclusion.

Boy: Anong gagawin mo, korte kaagad ba ito?

Lacson: Hindi, may due process, Boy, e.

Boy: Maicocorrect.

Lacson: Patibayin, siyempre, kasi ang DOJ...

Boy: You go through the judicial process.

Lacson: Yes, pero kailangan, patibayin yung ebidensiya, at tapos dapat talaga, ipamukha dun sa, maski sa, alam mo, malaki naman yung koordinasyon between the executive, legislative, at saka yung judiciary. E, 'di ba, karamihan, Boy, ang nakikiusap pa nga na maligtas yung isang mambabatas, minsan, nanggagaling pa sa executive e. Kinakausap yung huwes.

Boy: And that's sad.

Lacson: Ha?

Boy: And that's very sad.

Lacson: That's very sad, kaya nga icinocompare ko nga si Lolo Narding, nakulong nang, alam mo, yung the ordinary thieves, they get the whip surely and fast, pero yung mga big time na mga thieves, 'no, ito yung big and powerful, they stayed big, they stayed powerful. It won't work that way, Boy. Maniwala ka sa 'kin.

Boy: So, Senador, pagkatapos mo samplean, samplean, 'ika nga, yung big time, yung siguradong-sigurado, alam ng lahat, alam mo na talamak na corrupt...

Lacson: Walang magrereklamo, walang magkukuwestiyon.

Boy: Walang magrereklamo, what is next? What do you do next?

Lacson: Well, sustain. Hindi pupuwedeng 'pag natapos...

Boy: Isusustain mo 'yan.

Lacson: Yes. Ginawa ko sa PNP 'yan, Boy. Ganyan ang ginawa ko e. Ilan yun napadismiss ko? Four months lang, nacorrect ko yung PNP e, kasi tinanong din ako ng media nun sa Crame e, nung nag-assume ako, 'General, anong nakita niyong pinakamalaking problema ng PNP?' Ambilis ng sagot ko, Boy, 'PNP,' kaya internal cleansing kaagad e. Ganun din sa national government, massive talaga, sustained na internal cleansing, kasi everything starts with government, everything ends with government. There's no other way, Boy. Let's not look at society, let's not look at the public.

Boy: Let's look at?

Lacson: Ourselves. Again, balik na naman ako sa original ano ko, leadership by example, it's second to none. Kung hindi ka marunong maglead by example, walang susunod sa iyo, kasi double ang standard mo.

Boy: I hear you, Senator. Let's go to the West Philippine Sea. 'Pag pinag-uusapan ang WPS, ang West Philippine Sea, Scarborough Shoal, o Panatag, Bajo de Masinloc, at part of the Spratly Islands, this is a northeastern part of the Spratly Islands, ang Kalayaan Island Group, ang atin, pero inaangkin ito ng Tsina. Sa Subi, Zamora Reef at Mischief, Panganiban, ayon sa aming research, nagtayo na dito ang Tsina ng mga hangars, underground storage, missile shelters, radar arrays, and other facilities. July 12, 2016, naglabas ng desisyon ang Permanent Court of Arbitration, pabor sa Pilipinas sa issue ng West Philippine Sea. In other words, ang sinasabi ng korte, atin ang West Philippine Sea, pero patuloy pa rin na inaangkin ng Tsina. Tuloy pa rin tayo ng pagfifile ng mga diplomatic protests. As of December 2021, we have filed two hundred forty-one diplomatic protests, sinasagot naman tayo, one hundred fifty-two responses ang ating natanggap. Ang aking katanungan, as President of the Republic of the Philippines, Senador Ping, you are also the chief architect of foreign policy, if all diplomatic efforts fail, bilang Presidente, do you think the Philippines is strong enough and prepared to fight a defensive war against China to protect our territorial sovereignty?

Lacson: No. That's the reason why we have to strengthen our alliances, Boy, with the equally militarily strong countries like the United States, European Union countries, Australia. Ito'y may mga sariling interest...

Boy: Sa South China Sea.

Lacson: Sa South China Sea, sa West Philippine Sea, ayokong tawaging South China Sea yun.

Boy: No, yung pagdaan lamang po, Senador, noong 5.3 trillion trade ng Australia, America, at ibang bayan. Go ahead.

Lacson: Yes, yes, yeah. Okay. Kasi hindi natin kaya talaga. Very weak tayo militarily so we strengthen our alliances. Meron tayong weapons sa arsenal natin na hindi natin natatap, mutual defense treaty, nandiyan 'yan. An assault on a public vessel of either country, assault 'yon sa sovereignty nung parties, ano, both parties, so ba't hindi natin nahaharness? So, sa akin, balance of power sa West Philippine Sea. Nagpunta 'ko ng Pag-asa Island, Boy, ano, tapos kausap ko yun, nabrief ako noong WestCom Commander. Sinubukan ng Amerika, American warship ito, sabi niya, na sinubukang pumasok talaga dun sa lugar na, yung pinipilit ng Tsina na, 'Amin 'yan, walang makakapasok.' Alam mo, nung chinallenge sila, ang sinabi lang nung captain nung warship, 'The right of innocent passage.' Hindi sila ginalaw. Ibig sabihin, hindi nila kaya yung barko ng Amerika, na iwater cannon, o kaya iattack, kasi may paglalagyan din sila, so balance of power, Boy. Ang gagamitin natin, yun tinatawag na, kasi ang foreign policy also is anchored on national interest, cannot be denied, may national interest sila diyan e, unang-una, freedom of navigation. 'Pag kinontrol ng China, mawawala yung freedom of navigation. Second, trade, 'no? Sabi mo nga, Boy, eleven to twelve percent ng international trade, dumadaan diyan. Apektado sila so may national interest. Kung ako, Boy, gagawin ko, yung mga fishermen natin na nawalan ng hanapbuhay, one thousand five hundred, ayaw nang mangisda ro'n, kaya tayo umiimport ng galunggong e, galing din sa West Philippine Sea 'yon. Ang gagawin ko, paeescortan ko ng Philippine Coast Guard, marami na tayong mga bagong barko, yung Philippine Coast Guard, yung ating mga fishermen, pero tatawag ako ng joint military exercises with either Australia, US. Willing sila, Boy, so hindi lang tayo nakaescort, pero sa pamamagitan ng joint military exercises, meron tayong kaagapay, hanggang sa masanay na, tingnan ko kung bombahin ng Tsina 'yon, tingnan ko kung iram yung bangka ng ating mga fishermen, kung meron nakaagapay na Philippine Coast Guard, tapos may joint military exercise. Maski isang linggo, dalawang linggo, papalit-palit lang. Ito, top of mind ito, Boy, a, dahil there's no other way e. Alam mo ang nawala sa atin diyan? Anlaki. 'Pag tiningnan mo statistics ng isdang nawala sa atin, yung aquatic resources, sa West Philippine Sea, at nawalan ng hanapbuhay ang ating mga mangingisda, magigimbal ka, Boy. Kikilabutan ka. Atin 'yan e.

Boy: Senator Ping, ano ang halaga noong desisyon ng arbitral court?

Lacson: Napakahalaga kasi permanent 'yan e, although hindi enforceable, 'yun ang problema. Hindi 'yan ang implementable, but that is permanent. It's unapplicable.

Boy: Some of the critics of the decisions say na, 'Ad hoc panel lamang ho ito, ito...'

Lacson: A, hindi, permanent 'yan decision na 'yan e. Alam mo, pinag-aralan ko 'yan, Boy, noong lumabas yung...

Boy: So, that's very important.

Lacson: Yeah, very important. Pinag-aralan ko 'yan e. Hindi 'yan nareresolve ng giyera, yung decision ng arbitral, sa arbitral ruling. Nareresolve 'yan sa, para magcomply yung losing party, sa pamamagitan ng international pressure, hindi ng giyera.

Boy: Ito ang alliances na sinasabi mo.

Lacson: Yes.

Boy: Because China didn't cooperate. They were invited to join the arbitration. Sabi nila, 'Hindi, you are legally infirm, your allegations are not acceptable.'

Lacson: Well, that's their opinion, pero ito, permanent ito e.

Boy: 'And you did not exhaust bilateral negotiations. Gusto namin, bilateral. Ayaw namin ng korte,' so, with, you know, China's a superpower, we're a small country, sa pag-uusap, Senador, how do you deal with somebody like China?

Lacson: Well, tayo, kasi nasa Constitution natin, independent foreign policy tayo e. We cannot be for or against any country, specially China, nasa Asia rin e, pero yun nga e, kung ginagamitan tayong pambubully, well, humanap tayo ng ibang paraan para nang sa gano'n...

Boy: And you think we're bullied by China.

Lacson: Oh, we've always been bullied. E, kami lang e, Pilipino 'ko, Senador ako, pumunta 'ko ng Pag-asa. Nung papunta na kami dun, chinachallenge kami, 'Avoid possible misjudgment,' ibig sabihin, 'Puwede namin kayong bombahin.'

Boy: Sinabihan kayo.

Lacson: Yung piloto, naririnig namin e. Alam mo ang nasa isip ko no'n? 'Mamatay na kung mamatay, kasi kahiya-hiya naman na aatras ako dahil nachallenge ako, e atin 'to.' Yung Pag-asa Island, that's the only barangay of the Kalayaan Town, 'no, Municipality, na under the probinsiya ng Palawan, 'no? Ito lang yung inhabited. There are only hundred ninety-three souls, living souls, in that island.

Boy: Maraming salamat, Senador. Our tenth question, let's talk about Presidential qualifications. You are, again, applying to be President of the Republic of the Philippines. It's a complex job. It's a gargantuan job, 'ika nga. Nilista namin ang ilan lamang sa mga gawain ng Presidente para lamang malaman ng ating mga kababayan kung gaano kacomplex ang trabaho ng isang Pangulo. Head of government, chief architect of foreign policy, commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, signs budgets, manages finance, appoints justices, of course, recommended by the Judicial and Bar Council, confers the National Artist Award, manages disasters and pandemic, fights drug wars, head of his/her political party, has power over aliens, power of eminent domain, practices general supervision over local governments, and pardons convicts. Ganun ho kadaunting yung trabaho ng isang Pangulo. Samantala, sa ating Saligang Batas, Article Seven, Section Two, of the 1987 Constitution, ang qualifications para maging isang Presidente ay ang mga sumusunod, natural-born Filipino, registered voter, must be able to read and write, forty years of age at the day of the election, must have resided in the Philippines ten years before the election is held. You are one of the candidates for the Presidency of this country. Sa iyong opinyon, Senator Ping, napapanahon na ba para amyendahan ang provision na ito sa Saligang Batas, oo, hindi, bakit?

Lacson: Siguro, dapat baguhin yung qualifications, yung basic, dapat baguhin. Itaas natin kasi 'pag nag-apply ka ng trabaho, Boy, 'di ba, katakut-takot yung pagdadaanan mo. E, ito, sabi mo nga, very daunting, ano, yung mga dapat gawin. Hindi lang daunting yung mga dapat gawin kundi yung hinaharap natin problema sa ngayon, lalo't sa pandemya, lalong daunting 'yon, so, tapos bibigyan mo lang ng natural-born, at least forty years of age, pagkatapos, able to read and write, tapos, 'yon. Parang hindi tugma do'n sa sign of the times, 'ika nga, na yung ordinaryong nag-aapply ng trabaho, mas mataas pa yung qualification na hinihingi kaysa sa nag-aapply ng Presidente, but, of course, bottom line is it's up to the people to decide e. Siguro, dun na ang nakaanchor kung bakit napakabasic yung qualification, dahil, 'di ba, yung vox populi, 'di ba, vox Dei, so at the end of the day, tao naman yung magdedecide. Ito na nga yun, Boy, ang aking sasabihin, siguro, panahon na para maging mas discerning yung ating mga botante, 'wag magpadala dun sa tinatawag na politics of entertainment, 'di ba? Do'n naman tayo sa serious politics. Pag-aralan natin. Ang problema nga, kulang sa pag-aaral yung ating mga botante, na kung saan, nadadala sila dun sa mga, alam mo na, kung sino yung nakapagbigay ng dole out, at sino yung, malungkot, napakalungkot, Boy, pero ang sagot ko nga, dapat palitan.

Boy: No, I heard, I just wanted to make a comment on it, dahil iba talaga ang behavior 'pag electoral contests. Naaalala ko ang kuwento ng venerable Nelson Mandela when he ran for the Presidency of South Africa. Siya ay pinasasayaw, 'pag siya ay pumupunta sa entablado, the township dance, the toyi-toyi, because ang pananaw ng ibang experts ay ang eleksyon, is an entirely different season as opposed to governance, get the votes, and then govern. Your comment.

Lacson: Diyan kami hindi magkasundo nung campaign team ko, Boy, 'no. Pagka sinabi nilang kailangan, sumayaw ka, may threshold ako, Boy. We're facing serious problems.

Boy: Hanggang saan ka, Senador?

Lacson: Well, hanggang hindi masacrifice yung authenticity ko, doon ako. Alam mo, hindi naman tayo yung, I can be pliant, ano, but to a certain point, pero pagka yung wala nang kinalaman sa problema ng bansa, seryoso, Boy, we're facing tough problems that need tough solutions from tough leaders, and yet kung hindi magtutugma yun tatlong 'yon, sa'n na naman tayo nito pupulutin, Boy? Alam mo ang vision ko sa country, Boy? Ito, hindi sa pag-aano, towards the end of my term, eto yung Pilipino, nag-aanalyze sa sarili niya, nag-aanalyze sa bansa niya, parang ang ano niya, sigurado niyang sarili niya na he's now better off than when the new administration started, tapos yung bansa natin, parang ang taas ng tingin sa ating gobyerno, hindi tulad ngayon na ang tingin sa ating lahat ng mga govern, bar none, ano, tingin lahat, kawatan e. Kaninong kasalanan 'yon? Hindi sa mamamayan. Kasalanan ng government. Again, balik dun sa pinagsimulan natin kanina, the number one problem of our country is government, and the solution is government.

Boy: I hear you, Senator. Balikan ko lamang yung dun sa mga qualifications because you agreed to do the idea of amending para magtagpo naman yung, ito ang trabaho, ito ang qualifications. It was Senator Miriam, who said, Defensor Santiago, the late senator, who said na, 'Ang police officer nga, 'pag nag-aapply, hinahanapan ng diploma. Ang Presidente pa kaya?' That's one school of thought, 'no? Paano magagawa 'yon? Would you amend the, I mean, how do you actually do it as the President?

Lacson: Constitution 'yan e. Walang choice kundi...

Boy: You really have to go back to the Constitution.

Lacson: Yeah, you have to amend the charter.

Boy: Oo, you have to amend the charter, even if you think na medyo may kakulangan, because the spirit, I think naman, of the Constitution, kung bakit yung framers ng Constitution ay ganoon nga ang requirements was to democratize.

Lacson: Tama.

Boy: You know, to allow.

Lacson: Parang hindi class ang tinitingnan, ano? Parang lahat tayo puwedeng mangarap, maski yung 'di nakapag-aral, maski yung, basta, basic qualifications.

Boy: Correct, kasi hindi naman...

Lacson: Dun nanggagaling yun. 

Boy: Oo, hindi naman formula kasi na mataas ang iyong pinag-aralan, magaling kang leader. You talk about leadership, 'no? Hindi naman nangangahulugan na may PhD kailangan. Iba-iba ang peculiarities ng mga...

Lacson: Boy, maraming may PhD na mas magaling magnakaw kaysa magsilbi.

Boy: Okay. I hear you. Hindi, ang sinasabi ko, may mga ibang bayan kasi, based on their experience, dun na ibabase yung qualification. Myanmar ngayon, hindi na puwede ang asawa, foreigner, oo. Mayroong Turkey, I think, requires higher education. Indonesia, high school graduate. France...

Lacson: But we have to review, talagang babalik tayo sa charter kasi nandoon 'yon e.

Boy: Tama, babalik at babalik. May mga ibang bayan naman, ang requirement ay dapat may bank account, oo. France ang, well. Great Britain actually. Senador, tapos na po tayo sa ating sampung katanungan. Punta naman ho tayo dito sa personal issue-based question. This is a question for you. January 20, '01, you held a press conference in Camp Crame, naalala ko po yun, to withdraw support from then President Erap Estrada. Samantala, from the book, Ito ang Pilipino, which is a compilation of articles paying tribute to the former President Joseph Estrada, as published by the Philippine Daily Inquirer, you wrote in part, and quote, 'Yet in the same respect, what I am now, I owe and attribute to him. If I didn't become part of his team, I would not have become chief of the Presidential Anti-Organized Crime Task Force (PAOCTF), chief of the Philippine National Police, and senator of the Republic.' Ang aking katanungan, Senator Lacson, in hindsight, do you regret having withdrawn your support from then President Joseph Estrada in 2001?

Lacson: No. Walang regret kasi, alam mo, noong magkasama kami sa PACC, Vice President siya, nakita ko lahat yung the noblest of intentions, up-close e. Alam ko talaga ang intention, but somewhere along the way, when he became President, maraming mga nagbago. Nabalik ko nga sa 'yo kanina, Boy, nung pinag-uusapan namin yung policy sa peace and order, tungkol sa jueteng. Parang prophetic e, sinabi ko kanya, 'Sir, sasabog tayo diyan.' If he listened, siguro, hindi siya na-EDSA Dos.

Boy: Thank you. I cannot follow up. Punta naman tayo, Senator, sa ating political fast talk. We have sixty seconds to do this. We begin now. Bakit hindi dapat iboto si Senator Pacquiao?

Lacson: Kasi tumatakbo akong Presidente, Boy.

Boy: Bakit hindi dapat iboto si Mayor Isko?

Lacson: Pareho rin ng sagot ko, kasi tumatakbo akong Presidente.

Boy: Si Vice President Leni.

Lacson: Ganun din ang sagot ko.

Boy: Si Senator Marcos.

Lacson: Ganun din ang sagot ko, kasi tumatakbo 'ko, ba't sila dapat iboto, kung ako tatanungin mo.

Boy: Bakit ikaw ang dapat iboto?

Lacson: Ako, I'll be a bit arrogant, ano? I'm the most qualified, I'm the most competent, I'm the most experienced. 

Boy: Maraming salamat po. Here's my final question, answerable in sixty seconds, and I cannot follow up. March 19, 2018, President Duterte withdrew the Philippines from the Rome Statute. When the withdrawal took effect, March 17, 2019, the Philippines is no longer a member of the International Criminal Court. The withdrawal happened matapos ianunsyo noong then ICC Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda ang pagbubukas ng preliminary examination sa Pilipinas with respect to the alleged crimes against humanity na nagaganap sa bansa dahil sa war on drugs. The President has threatened to arrest the ICC Prosecutor if she conducts activities here in the Philippines because sabi niya, 'We are no longer an ICC member, and ICC has no right to do any investigating.' On November 10, 2021, the Philippine government requested a deferral of the ICC's request for examination under the principle of complementarity, claiming that the country had begun its own investigations. The current ICC Prosecutor Karim Khan, in a document dated November 18, sabi niya, 'We will temporarily suspend our investigation into the Philippines as it assesses the scope and effect of the government's request for deferral,' that cited the investigations being done ng ating Department of Justice. Human rights advocacy groups are urging the ICC to proceed with the investigation to not further delay justice for the victims. My question, Senator Ping, hypothetical lamang ito, Presidente ka ng Pilipinas, sumulat sa 'yo ang ICC Prosecutor na si Karim Khan, at siya'y nagrerequest, 'Puwede ba kami pumasok na ng Pilipinas, ako at ang aking team, to do preliminary,' not anymore preliminary examination dahil ito'y, in the opinion of the Prosecutor, ay natapos na.

Lacson: May probable cause na.

Boy: May probable cause na so ito'y investigation na, 'ika nga, so, 'Puwede ba kaming pumasok ng Pilipinas para umpisahan na ang investigation on the alleged crimes against humanity na may kinalaman sa war on drugs?' As President of the Republic, kayo ho ba'y papayag na papasukin sila dito sa Pilipinas to do what they want to do, which is investigate, oo, hindi, at bakit?

Lacson: Unahin ko yung premise muna, yung ICC is a court of the powerless. Who wouldn't want that? So, alam mo na yung sagot ko, Boy. Papayag ako.

Boy: Senator Ping, maraming-maraming salamat.

Lacson: Thank you. Thank you, Boy.

Boy: Thank you for your time. Thank you for being here. Thank you for accepting our invitation. God bless you, at mabuhay ka.

Lacson: God bless, Boy.

Boy: Maraming salamat sa inyong lahat na sumama sa aming pag-uusap ni Senator Ping Lacson. Kayo'y mag-iingat po, stay healthy, at God bless you. Mabuhay po ang Pilipinas. Good night.

25 January 2022

The Toni Gonzaga Interviews, 2021 (Pacquiao)

source: https://youtu.be/4tiRkOWV8Gc
disclaimer: this is not an official transcript.
average reading time: 16 mins

note:
before remarking on errors,
check the audio from source first.

Toni: He is considered as one of the greatest athletes of all time. He's the only eight-division world champion in the history of boxing across four decades. He also became the oldest welterweight world champion in history at the age of forty, and in 2015, Forbes named him as the second highest paid athlete in the world. There's never been a boxer like him, and there will never be another one like him. It's an honor to have with us the legend, the icon, and the Philippine senator, Manny Pacquiao.

Pacquiao: Hello.

Toni: Hi po, Senator. Relax na relax kayo ngayon a.

Pacquiao: Relax lang, dito lang.

Toni: Kamusta po ang inyong pagbabalik sa Pilipinas? You just finish your ten-day quarantine.

Pacquiao: Yeah, sa Conrad. 'Di masyadong boring dahil kasama ko yung wife ko e, unless, kung ako lang siguro, talagang...

Toni: 'Pag po umaalis kayo ng Pilipinas, and you're preparing for a fight, paano niyo po cinocondition yung sarili niyo, kasi you wear many hats, you are a senator, you're a philanthropist.

Pacquiao: Just, ano lang, hindi masyadong, kumbaga, sa madaling gawin, pero, just time management, tapos discipline lang talaga, kasi, siyempre, may trabaho ka sa Senate, tapos nag-eensayo ka, nagfofocus ka dun sa fight mo, ta's may pamilya ka pa, iniisip mo, so, 'pag sa araw, talagang wala 'kong ibang iisipin kundi yung training ko, yung boxing ko, ganun. Pagtapos ng training, yun, magrelax-relax ako, tatawag ako sa pamilya ko, ayan, nakarelax-relax na, and then tawag ako sa mga bata saka kay Jinkee, and then after that, pag-usapan ang ano, yung sa work sa Senate, ganoon.

Toni: So, time management talaga.

Pacquiao: Mm, time management.

Toni: Alam niyo, sabi po nila, a true test of a man's character is seen not on how he handles his victories but by how he handles his defeats. Siyempre, lahat po kami, tinutukan namin yung latest fight ninyo, and if there's one thing na lagi naming nakikita sa inyo is that there's always humility, in victory and in defeat.

Pacquiao: When you have Jesus in your life, I mean, in your heart, talagang kusa lang siyang lalabas, yung parang...

Toni: Natural.

Pacquiao: God will always remind, iremind you na, 'Oh, you must be humble all the time,' like that.

Toni: 'Pag natatalo po kayo sa isang laban, naiiyak pa po kayo?

Pacquiao: Before, siguro. Bago ako...

Toni: Ano po yung fight na natalo kayo na iniyakan niyo?

Pacquiao: Morales One. 'Di ba kasi naputukan ako, ta's andaming dugo, nawala, and then nahospital ako after ng fight, kasi sa dami ng dugo na nawala, parang nagblurred yung paningin ko, then, ta's natalo ako.

Toni: Bago po kayo lumaban sa ring, nararamdaman niyo po ba kapag mananalo kayo or matatalo kayo?

Pacquiao: Sometimes, may mga, yung pakiramdam mo na, 'Iba yung pakiramdam ko ngayon,' like that. Lalo nung natalo ako kay Marquez, Sunday nang gabi, natulog ako, nanaginip ako, and then yung panaginip ko, talagang iba, talagang, ikuwento ko, okay lang?

Toni: Sige, sige po.

Pacquiao: Nanaginip ako, nasa itaas daw ako ng building, tapos tinitingnan ko yung parang, yung kalsada, lupa, parang alon ng, yung dagat, tapos nakita ko, may tumatakbong kabayo na may sakay. Pulang kabayo, ang tulin, tulin, ganun, tapos pagtingin ko dun, nakaganun ako sa building, tapos pagtingin ko doon, malaking hole, parang, hindi naman butas, pero parang river na dry, tapos nakaganun lang siya, tapos ganun, so sabi ko, ang tulin ng takbo ng kabayo, sabi ko, 'Hala ka, hala, baka hindi siya aabot doon, hindi siya aabot kapag...' Kahit tumalon ang kabayo, hindi siya aabot.

Toni: Mahuhulog siya.

Pacquiao: Oo, mahuhulog siya, so, nakita ko, tumalon yung kabayo, ta's pati yung may saka, ta's talagang hindi umabot yung kabayo doon sa kabilang side.

Toni: Bumagsak.

Pacquiao: Bumagsak sa gitna, ta's talagang flat na flat, ganun, tapos pati yung kabayo, tapos yung sakay.

Toni: Anong naramdaman niyo dun sa panaginip na 'yon?

Pacquiao: Sabi ko, 'Ano kayang ibig sabihin nung panaginip ko?' So, Monday afternoon, lagi ko pa ring iniisip yun, tapos tumawag ako dito sa Pilipinas, pastor. Sabi ko, 'Pastor, nanaginip ako. Ito yung panaginip ko,' ganyan, tapos sabi niya, 'Sige, pagpray natin 'yan,' and then pagdating sa Vegas, kinuwento ko rin, nagkuwentuhan kami, kuwentuhan, 'Ano kayang ibig sabihin nung panaginip ko na yun, 'di ko maintindihan.' Eto na. Pagdating ng fight, ganda ng fight, ganyan, 'di ba, ganda ng fight, 'di ba? Kung ano yung nangyari sa akin, naalala ko yung panaginip ko. 'Di ba nung pagka nakahiga ako, ganun, ta's flat ako nang ano, tapos nung nagising ako, 'di ba, tumayo ako, gayun, tapos kung titingnan mo, reviewhin mo yung fight, 'di ba nagsmile ako, ganun ako, nagsmile ako dun sa TV. Sabi ko, kaya nung pagtayo ko, nagsmile ako kasi naalala ko yung panaginip ko. Ako pala yung nakasakay dun sa kabayo na pula, and then...

Toni: Babagsak nang gano'n.

Pacquiao: Babagsak. Hindi ako nagalit. Hindi ako nagtampo. Walang, parang ano ba na, thankful ako na pinaalam sa akin ng Panginoon before...

Toni: Bago mangyari 'yon, may premonition na.

Pacquiao: Yes, bago mangyari.

Toni: So, 'pag natatalo po kayo sa laban, hindi kayo nagagalit sa Diyos?

Pacquiao: Ay, hindi, hindi. Nagpapasalamat ako palagi sa Panginoon. Sometimes, nangyayari ito, you are Christian, na when times go right, 'di ba, yung 'pag maganda yung takbo ng buhay mo, ganyan. Dun nga masusubok yung pagiging tunay na Christian mo, sa mga ano e, temptation, mga trial sa buhay mo.

Toni: 2010 kayo naging Christian, ano? Paano po nangyari 'yon?

Pacquiao: 'Di, nasa ano, nasa kuwarto ako no'n, may fight ako sa Amerika. Tapos sabi ko, hindi ko malaman, ta's binabasa ko yung Purpose Driven Life, ta's binabasa ko, ta's basa ako ng Bible. Umiiyak ako, talagang dun ako ano, ta's sabi ko, parang gusto kong iend na yung buhay ko, kasi parang nagsisi ako sa mga kasalanan ko, sabi ko.

Toni: Gusto niyo nang iend ang buhay niyo.

Pacquiao: Oo. Nasa kuwarto lang ako ta's sabi ko, ako lang mag-isa, grabe yung hagulgol ko talaga, yung talagang iyak talaga na ano, sabi ko, 'Ano kayang gagawin ko? Lord, hindi ako karapat-dapat,' sabi kong ganyan, 'Kung ibalik ko lang lahat ng panahon, yung panahon, hindi ko gagawin lahat ng nagawa ko against You,' sabi kong gano'n. Iyak ako nang iyak.

Toni: Ano ho ba yung mga nagawa niyo against Him na nalaman Niya?

Pacquiao: 'Di ba, ano 'ko, womanizing, drunkenness, lahat ginagawa, gambling, lahat, tapos languages na lumalabas sa bunganga ko. A, talagang sabi ko...

Toni: Nagsisi kayo?

Pacquiao: Talagang pinagsisihan ko, sabi ko, 'Lord, hindi ako...' Parang, parang ano ba, parang, 'Hindi ako...'

Toni: Nanliit kayo.

Pacquiao: O, nagliit ako na, 'Lord, hindi ako...' Talagang nakaluhod ako tapos face on the ground, and then ako lang mag-isa, sabi ko, 'Lord, hindi ako karapat-dapat,' na yun yung feeling, alam mo yung umabot na ganun, yung feeling ko noon. After that, sabi kong ganun, sabi ko, 'Papatawag tayo ng Bible study.' Biro mo, nagtaka sila bakit, 'Bakit Bible study araw-araw?' 'Pag nakakarinig ako ng Word of God, talagang masaya ako, yun yung feeling ko.

Toni: Hindi ko makakalimutan 'yon kasi nung naging Christian kayo, and of course, everyone was celebrating na, 'Oh, Manny is now a change person,' and then nagkaro'n kayo ng fight no'n, hindi ho ba?

Pacquiao: Natalo ako.

Toni: Yes. Kung kailan siya naging Kristiyano, paglaban niya, bigla siyang natalo.

Pacquiao: Natalo ako no'n, sabi kong gano'n...

Toni: Ito po ba yung Bradley?

Pacquiao: Bradley, Bradley, oo. Alam mo, nung time na yun, iba yung pakiramdam ko, hindi ako, wala talagang kahit percentage na madiscourage ako, wala.

Toni: Nung natalo kayo?

Pacquiao: Natalo 'ko. Parang sa akin ba, hindi mahalaga 'yang mga worldly things na 'yan, lahat-lahat 'yan. Importante, close ako sa, kay Lord, parang ganun ba, ganun. E, Lord, importante, nakilala kita, close ako sa 'yo, no problem. Alam mo, mula noon hanggang ngayon, yung journey ng buhay ko, talagang there's a, of course, habang nabubuhay tayo, there are so many temptation, destruction, trials, like yung mga ganun.

Toni: Minsan, nagkakamistake, 'di naman tayo perfect.

Pacquiao: Yeah, tama, pero yung pagsisisi mo, lahat, isisi ka sa Panginoon. Nagkakamali tayo, nakapagsalita tayo ng masama, ganun, parang nakapag-isip tayo ng masama, confess ka lang.

Toni: There was a comment that you made about the LGBTQ, hindi ho ba, that really offended them.

Pacquiao: Naedit kasi masyado yung statement ko na yun. Ang sinasabi ko palagi, na hindi ko cinocondemn yung mga gay, mga LGBT. May mga pamangkin akong LGBT. Andami kong mga LGBT na workers, sa bahay ko, sa kahit yung mga kapatid ko. As a person, hindi mo sabihin na, galit ka sa kanya, kinukundena mo siya, dapat nga, who am I to judge a person, 'di ba?

Toni: Kasi parang yung statement niyo po kasi nun, kinumpara niyo sila sa hayop, dun po sila naoffend.

Pacquiao: Mahaba kasi yung ano na yun...

Toni: Yung statement.

Pacquiao: Bakit napunta dun sa binanggit ko sa ano, tapos binanggit ko dito.

Toni: So parang...

Pacquiao: Pinagdugtong na pinag-anuhan.

Toni: Pero naniniwala po kayo that, of course, God loves them also.

Pacquiao: Exactly. Lahat tayong tao, kawangis ng Panginoon. Maganda 'to kasi papaliwanag ko a. Ang gusto kong sabihin is hindi ko cinocondemn sila. Actually, alam mo, mas maganda nga kaibigan, kasama, katrabaho 'yang mga, kaibigang masisipag, masisipag at tsaka walang...

Toni: Masaya sila. Creative. Masaya.

Pacquiao: Masaya. Walang ano, magaling sila mag-ano, mag-isip, 'di ba, mag-isip, ta's masisipag, ganyan.

Toni: Iba si Manny Pacquiao 'pag nasa ring, then iba rin si Manny Pacquiao outside the ring.

Pacquiao: Tama. Siyempre, 'pag nasa ring ka, kailangan mong fighter ka, aalisin mo muna yung...

Toni: Christian. Christian, ''Di ako Christian dito sa ring.'

Pacquiao: A, hindi, alisin mo muna, pero naaawa ka pero, but, you know...

Toni: Bubugbugin mo.

Pacquiao: Kasi authorized naman kayong dalawa. 

Toni: It's a legal sport naman. Bugbugan.

Pacquiao: Pinapayagan kang saktan mo siya. Pinapayagan ko rin siyang saktan niya 'ko.

Toni: Oo, nagsasakitan kayo. Do you like that Manny Pacquiao in the ring, na he's a fighter, may killer instinct, knockout instinct?

Pacquiao: Only in the ring, pero outside the ring, basta mga masama...

Toni: Ayaw mo.

Pacquiao: Fighter din tayo.

Toni: Speaking of fight, you're also fighting for corruption that's happening in our country right now.

Pacquiao: Yes.

Toni: You're very passionate about it.

Pacquiao: 'Yan ang cancer ng bansa natin, yung corruption. Sa nakikita ko a, sa mahigit isang dekada kong pagserbisyo sa gobyerno, 'pag patuloy na ganito, patindi pa nang patindi, hindi pa ano ha, paganda nang paganda, no, paworse nang paworse ang, palala nang palala yung sitwasyon, especially corruption, 'pag ganyan palagi, maniwala ka sa 'kin, ten to twenty years from now, or more, lalo pa tayong maghihirap. Totoo 'yan. Ang ating gobyerno, nangungutang para sa expenditure niya annually. Isipin mo na lang 'to, ito na lang, ang gastos niyo sa bahay monthly is one hundred thousand.

Toni: Okay.

Pacquiao: Pero ang kumikita lang kayo, forty thousand.

Toni: Tsk. Ang laki ng utang.

Pacquiao: 'Yan ang...

Toni: Nangyayari ngayon.

Pacquiao: Nangyayari sa bansa natin.

Toni: Pero ang tanong po kasi nila, bakit ngayon niyo lang 'to inexpose? Bakit hindi daw last year, or early on, nung nakikita niyo na? Ang suspetsa tuloy nila, ineexpose niyo dahil natakbo.

Pacquiao: Dahil eleksyon.

Toni: Yes. 

Pacquiao: Okay, ganun, maganda 'yan, ganun, ganun. Actually, hindi naman sa pag-insulto sa kanila, parang hindi sila updated sa nangyayari sa ating gobyerno pagka ganun kasi pag-upo ko nang senator nung 2016, pagstart ng trabaho ko, nag-imbestiga kaagad ako niyan, ng eight billion anomaly.

Toni: 2016 pa lang po?

Pacquiao: 2016 pa lang 'yan...

Toni: Nag-iimbestiga na kayo?

Pacquiao: Nag-iimbestiga na 'ko, eight billion anomaly, at hanggang umabot kaming 2017, umabot pa kami sa GenSan para maghearing niyan.

Toni: E, bakit hindi po napublish 'yon?

Pacquiao: Nandiyan sa record 'yan ng Senate.

Toni: Ahh. Ngayon lang po talaga yung naging all out in the open.

Pacquiao: Hindi pa 'yan, hindi pa 'yan. 'Di, eight billion anomaly sa GenSan, road right-of-way, e, anlaki-laki no'n, nakuha, winithdraw nila yung pera, tapos hindi naman totoo, so meaning to say, dapat makulong lahat ng mga nagnakaw sa gobyerno, eight billion yun e. Pagkatapos niyan, nakita siguro ng mga tao na, 'Uy, si Manny, ano talaga, anti-corruption,' 'di ba, ganun? May mga, maraming nagbibigay sa akin ng mga information, nung mga ebidensya, lahat. Anong gagawin ko? Matahimik ako? Ay, hindi naman ako katulad nilang mga trapong pulitiko e. Nandito ako para sa bayan, hindi para sa sarili ko, dahil gusto ko ipaglaban yung mga karapatan ng mga maliliit na tao, o. Bubuwagin ko lahat 'yang mga corruption na 'yan hangga't nandito 'ko sa gobyerno.

Toni: Yun nga po ang malaking katanungan ng mga tao, actually, ng mga Pilipino, sikat na kayo, mayaman na kayo, world champion, one of the most respected athletes in the world, you put the Philippines in the map pagdating sa boxing, bakit niyo pa raw po pinasok ang pulitika?

Pacquiao: Alam mo, naaawa kasi ako sa mga kababayan natin. Kung hindi ako, sino? Sinong magtatanggol sa kanila? Sinong magpoprotekta sa kanila? Hindi ko pinagmamalaki yung sarili ko, pero 'yan yung nararamdaman ko e, kasi hindi kasi ako materialistic na tao, na pera, pera, o, parang hindi ako worldly, hindi, in short, hindi ako worldly person.

Toni: Sabi niyo po kanina, hindi kayo materialistic, hindi kayo worldly na tao, pero isa po sa mga binabatikos ng mga tao, not to you, but to your wife, ay yung mga material things na nakikita nila. Ano naman po yung stand niyo doon?

Pacquiao: Ang depensa ko lang naman doon is yung pera na pinaghirapan ko, hard-earn money ko, inenjoy lang namin, inenjoy ng asawa ko. Anong masama doon? Kumbaga sa ano, makita naman namin, maenjoy sarili namin kasi, biro mo, dugo at pawis ang puhunan, tapos hindi mo maenjoy, parang ano ka lang.

Toni: Nasasaktan po ba kayo 'pag binabatikos kayo?

Pacquiao: Ay, hindi. Hindi ako ano, hindi ko, kasi yung wife ko, ano kami, strong kami sa Word of God.

Toni: Si Jinkee po, 'pag binabatikos siya?

Pacquiao: Lagi kong sinasabi yung Winston Churchill quote, 'You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stone at every dog that barks.'

Toni: Naks. Yes.

Pacquiao: 'Di ba?

Toni: Narinig ko na po 'yan. Sabi niyo kanina, ang passion niyo talaga is boxing, dahil dun niyo talaga nakukuha yung parang drive niyo in life, 'Ito talaga yung gusto kong gawin. This is what I love to do. I'm a boxer.' In politics, ano naman po ang nakukuha niyo? Kasi yung boxing is passion, what is politics for you?

Pacquiao: Politics is my commitment, life-long commitment.

Toni: To?

Pacquiao: To serve the people. 'Yan yung commitment ko sa kanila.

Toni: So, now that you have declared running for Presidency, what is the mission of Manny Pacquiao?

Pacquiao: Ito lang 'yan, kasi marami nang narinig sila sa 'kin about sa plano ko sa bansa natin, yung ipakulong yung mga ano, kawatan sa gobyerno, at palakasin ang ekonomiya natin, mabigyan ng trabaho at mabigyan ng livelihood ang ating mga kababayan, and then about pamilya at tsaka yung pahousing natin, yun talaga ang ano ko, and then kaya nga nasa Amerika ako, nakagawa ako ng twenty-two rounds priority agenda for the country, 'yan. First round...

Toni: Twenty-two rounds.

Pacquiao: Pero hindi ko ididiscuss yun lahat, mahaba yun e. First round niyan, fight against corruption, ipapakulong natin lahat ng mga kawatan sa gobyerno.

Toni: Yung twenty-two, kayo po nagsulat no'n?

Pacquiao: Ako naggawa nun.

Toni: Of your agenda.

Pacquiao: Of my agenda. Second round, yung ano siya, economic growth and development, tapos round per round, may explanation pa 'yan, tapos third round, employment. Daming walang employment ngayon dito. Alam mo fourth round? Free housing.

Toni: Ginagawa niyo na yun e, sa GenSan.

Pacquiao: Matagal na.

Toni: Marami na kayong napabahay sa GenSan.

Pacquiao: Oo. Free housing 'yang fourth round, ta's ineexplain kong mabuti 'yan. Fifth round yung improve health care services.

Toni: Yes, for the health care workers and frontliners.

Pacquiao: Health care workers. Lahat, hindi lang 'yan. Lahat, PhilHealth, lahat 'yan.

Toni: PhilHealth, ang dami ring issue do'n. Okay, so, ang six round po natin.

Pacquiao: Sustainable livelihood.

Toni: Memorize ni Senator Manny.

Pacquiao: Bibigyan natin ng sustainable livelihood, pangkabuhayan ang bawat pamilya, kung anong gusto na ano.

Toni: Negosyo.

Pacquiao: Negosyo. Magagawa natin 'yan basta bigyan natin ng importansya yung round number one.

Toni: Which is.

Pacquiao: Yung pagsugpo ng corruption.

Toni: That's your number one agenda.

Pacquiao: Ang corruption, kailangang hindi lang matanggal sa position, kundi makita natin na makulong na sa kulungan lahat.

Toni: Gusto niyo ipakulong lahat.

Pacquiao: Gusto kong ipakulong lahat.

Toni: Ang dami po nun.

Pacquiao: 'Pag napakulong silang lahat...

Toni: Ano po?

Pacquiao: Puwede na ako, ayaw na sa politics.

Toni: Talaga po? Mapakulong niyo lang?

Pacquiao: Puwede naman. Mapakulong ko lang 'yan sila lahat, kasi masama kasi yung loob ko, kasi makikita ko yung mga tao na naghihirap, 'di ba, nagugutom. 'Yang commitment ko na 'yan, hindi lang commitment ko 'yan sa tao, kundi commitment ko sa Panginoon. Doon ako nag-aano sa Panginoon, hindi sa tao, kasi 'pag sa tao, parang niloloko mo 'yan, puwede mong bawi-bawiin e, puwede mong hindi tuparin. Puwede mong hindi tuparin, puwede mong tuparin, ganun 'yan 'pag sa tao, pero 'pag sa Panginoon ka, obligado mong tuparin 'yan.

Toni: Puwede niyo naman daw pong gawin ang lahat ng 'yan, tumulong kayo, bigyan niyo ng livelihood yung ating mga kababayan, nang wala kayong position sa government. Ano po yung importance sa inyo ng position sa government?

Pacquiao: Tama 'yan. Marami na ako nabigyan na mga pamilya, livelihood, napagraduate na mga estudyante. Mula pa noong 2004, 2005, may ano na ako, na mga napagraduate na ako, hanggang ngayon, 'yan, ang dami nun, kaya lang, limited lang yung, siyempre, yung hard-earn money ko, hindi naman ganun kalaki, 'di ba? 'Lam mo, yung mahigit libong pamilya, nabigyan ko ng house and lot, ako mismo nagsusurpresa doon sa kanila, bisita sa kanila, yung sa tabing ilog, ganyan, 'di ba yung, marami sa probinsiya, yung sako lang yung sapin nila, ta's sa ilalim sila, ganun, nakatira sila. Bibisitahin ko sila doon, kukunin yung pangalan, ta's dalhin ko doon sa Pacman village ko. Natutuwa sila.

Toni: Sa GenSan po 'yan.

Pacquiao: GenSan and Sarangani.

Toni: So, yun po yung nagawa niyo sa GenSan, na ang dream niyo, magawa niyo sa buong Pilipinas?

Pacquiao: Kayang-kaya, sobra-sobra pa. Inestimate ko nga e, sabi ko, in three to four years, mabigyan ko lang, pero sinabi ko lang, four to five years, para hindi ako magsisinungaling, 'di ba? 

Toni: Ang dami nga pong nagtatanong e, 'Bakit ginagawa pa ni Senator Manny ang lahat ng 'to for the Filipinos,' when in reality, puwede naman daw po kayo magrelax, ienjoy niyo na lang yung pera ninyo, yung naachieve ninyo sa buhay, tapos you go into politics, and then you receive all these criticisms.

Pacquiao: Ako kasi, do'n ako sa tama. Ayaw kong maging trapo politician na, 'A, kasi kakampi ko 'to,' pagtakpan na lang kahit maraming corruption, sabihin ko na lang, 'Walang corruption, walang corruption,' hindi ako ganun e. Kakampi tayo. Magkasama tayo. Suporta 'ko sa lahat ng mga programa mo, pero pagdating sa masama, pasensyahan tayo. Tama yung sinabi mo na, bakit ko pa kailangang pumasok sa pulitika, 'di ba? E, yung mahigit sanlibong pamilya na binigyan ko ng house and lot, kung kuwentahin mo yung nagastos doon, siguro, kung kuwentahin mo yung nagastos ko doon, magkano kaya yung nagastos ko doon, na mahigit sanlibong pamilya?

Toni: Bilyon?

Pacquiao: Bilyun-bilyon ang nagastos ko, pero kung isipin ko lang sarili ko, bakit ko gagastusin sa mga tao yun, 'di ba?

Toni: Puwede mong ienjoy.

Pacquiao: Puwede ko nang ienjoy sa pamilya ko, ganyan, pasyal-pasyal ako, ganyan lang, 'di ba puwede ko nang iano e, pero hindi e. Totoo ang sinasabi ko na kailangan kong balikan ang mga kasama kung saan ako nanggaling, tulungan sila.

Toni: So, the number one problem in the country is?

Pacquiao: Poverty.

Toni: The reason why there's poverty is because there is?

Pacquiao: Massive corruption.

Toni: So, yun po talaga ang pinaglalaban niyo ngayon?

Pacquiao: Pinaglalaban ko, 'yan lang.

Toni: Pa'no po yun tinitira nila sa inyo, na you're always absent sa Senate? Kayo daw po ang may pinakamaraming absent. 

Pacquiao: Perfect attendance nga 'ko e.

Toni: Nag-attendance kayo?

Pacquiao: Mm-mm. Marami ang absent sa Congress nung araw, nung congressman pa lang ako, pero iba na dito sa Senate.

Toni: So, yung sinasabi po nila sa inyo, na lagi kayong absent, hindi po totoo 'yon?

Pacquiao: Nagtatrabaho ako sa distrito ko, kaya marami akong nabigyan ng mga pabahay nung time na 'yon.

Toni: Kung sakaling manalo po kayo bilang Presidente ng Pilipinas, pa'no po yung boxing career niyo? Magboboxing pa rin po ba kayo?

Pacquiao: Boxing career ko, tapos na yung boxing career ko.

Toni: 'Pag nanalo kayo, that's it.

Pacquiao: Tapos na, kasi matagal na rin ako sa pagboboksing, at yun pamilya ko, lagi nagsasabi, 'Tama na,' oo. Nagtuluy-tuloy lang ako kasi passionate ako dito sa sport na 'to. Magsusupport na lang ako ng mga boksingero para magkaroon ng, magkaroon tayo ng champion ulit. Ang pagiging Manny Pacquiao, hindi mo puwede sabihin, 'Ito ang next Manny Pacquiao, next Manny Pacquiao.' Ang Manny Pacquiao, hindi sa kanyang sarili, kundi ang Panginoon nagbigay ng blessings. When I started boxing, sino mag-akala na, o, sige, irewind natin lahat yung naaccomplish ko, 'di ba?

Toni: Yes.

Pacquiao: E, bata, nagtitinda ng pandesal, ganun. Sabihin ko sa 'yo, 'Magiging world champion ako, makilala ako sa buong mundo, maging eight division... Ano tingin mo?' 

'Ay, imposible naman yata 'yan.' Sabihin ng mga nakarinig, 'Ay, hindi posible naman 'yan,' tapos halimbawa, sabihin ko sa mga tao, 'A, kaya ko 'yan. Kaya ko maging eight different weight division, magchampion sa buong mundo, ' e, bata lang ako e, mga ganyan, 'di ba? Sabihin siguro natin, anong isipin natin, sige, anong iisipin natin?

Toni: 'Di ka maniniwala.

Pacquiao: 'Di ka maniwala.

Toni: But...

Pacquiao: But, in God, all things are possible.

Toni: Ano pong favorite verse niyo ngayon?

Pacquiao: Ang favorite verse ko, sa buhay ko talaga, yung Psalm 119, Verse 11, 'I have hidden Your word in my heart that I might not sin against You,' tapos yung Isaiah 41, Verse 10, 'So do not fear, for I'm with you; do not be dismay, for I'm your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.'

Toni: 'I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.' Ang ganda naman no'n.

Pacquiao: Sarap, 'no, 'di ba?

Toni: Yes.

Pacquiao: Kadami kong mabangga, kadami kong masagasaan, takot ba 'ko sa kanila? Manny Pacquiao?

Toni: Kanino lang kayo takot?

Pacquiao: Sa Panginoon lang ako takot. Bata pa 'ko, twelve years old pa lang ako, fighter na ako e. Magdasal diyan, yung mga kawatan diyan sa gobyerno, magdasal na huwag manalo ako, kasi hindi ako nagbibiro, totohanin ko talaga 'yan.

Toni: Pakukulong niyo sila.

Pacquiao: Mm.

Toni: Do you think you can change the system in the country, if you're given a chance?

Pacquiao: We can. We can change the system. Unang-una, sugpuin ang corruption, and then automation in all agencies in the government, any transaction, maliit o malaki, automation lahat. E, dito sa atin ngayon, gusto nila, manual e. Gusto nila, manual, para may, may ano ba, may...

Toni: Dodoktor.

Pacquiao: Madali sila makaano...

Toni: Lusot.

Pacquiao: Lusot sila. Gusto nilang maggawa ng paraan, at ito pa ang masakit.

Toni: Ano po 'yon?

Pacquiao: Nagnanakaw sila ng pera, buti kung dito sa Pilipinas, dinedeposito nila.

Toni: Sa Amerika?

Pacquiao: Makikinabang, makakatulong sa ekonomiya din ng bansa natin.

Toni: Sa'n po dinedeposit?

Pacquiao: Inilalabas nila ng bansa, idinedeposit nila sa ilang bansa, so lalong pahirap talaga sa ekonomiya natin, lalo...

Toni: 'Di nakakatulong.

Pacquiao: Ninanakawan na...

Toni: Pinapayaman pa yung ibang bansa.

Pacquiao: Pinapalaban pa yun sa ibang bansa.

Toni: Pero kilala niyo po, yung mga sinasabi niyong pulitiko? Parang kilala niyo, 'no?

Pacquiao: Hindi lang pulitiko e. Hindi, pati...

Toni: Sinu-sino pa po, pati yung mga?

Pacquiao: Halos nandoon na sa baba e. Systemic na yung corruption sa bansa natin.

Toni: So, from pulitiko hanggang pababa, staff, ganun?

Pacquiao: Hanggang sa, lahat. Nandoon na e, nakababa na sa ano e.

Toni: Sanga-sanga na.

Pacquiao: Ako, gagawa-gawa ng kuwento? Kalabanin ang Pangulo? Kalabanin ang administrasyon? Hindi ako gagawa ng kuwento. Tinutulungan ko pa nga e, ang administrasyon, para maexpose lahat ng corruption, dahil ayaw natin ng corruption. Hindi ko alam kung bakit nagagalit ang Pangulo sa akin, na ineexpose ko yung corruption. Mali ba ako na sinabi ko, three times, at talagang talamak ang kurapsyon sa bansa natin, mali ba ako? Ang dapat, ang sabihin niya dapat sa 'kin, 'O, sige, Manny, magtulungan tayo,' ganyan, 'Iexpose mo lahat 'yan, pakulong natin lahat 'yan. Ayaw natin ng corruption,' dapat ganun. Hindi yung sabihin, 'E, patunayan mo, ako magkakampanya sa 'yo,' na, e, ngayon? Kumbaga, sa ngayon, tingnan mo...

Toni: Lumabas.

Pacquiao: Andaming lumabas. Andaming corruption. Hindi pa 'yan e.

Toni: Ano na po ang pangarap ngayon ni Manny Pacquiao?

Pacquiao: Pangarap ko, makulong lahat ng kawatan, at pangarap ko, tumaas ang ekonomiya natin, gumanda ang ekonomiya natin, para nang sa gayon, 'pag malakas ang ekonomiya natin, maraming mabigyan ng trabaho. Ang target ko, gusto ko, ang trabaho maghahanap ng tao, hindi ang tao ang maghanap ng trabaho.

Toni: Sa tingin niyo po ba, magagawa niyo 'yon, kung maging Presidente kayo ng Pilipinas?

Pacquiao: Ang lahat diyan, magagawa natin, basta nasa puso mo, may guidance ka sa Panginoon, at dedicated ka, mahal mo, gusto mo, wala kang vested interest, magagawa ko, magagawa mo. 

24 January 2022

The Toni Gonzaga Interviews, 2021 (Bongbong)

source: https://youtu.be/1EwMAiqLUhM
disclaimer: this is not an official transcript.
average reading time: 18 mins

note:
before remarking on errors,
check the audio from source first.

Toni: Today, I'm with a man who needs no introduction. We have with us the one and only Mr. Bongbong Marcos.

Bongbong: Hello, hello. So happy to be here.

Toni: Thank you very much.

Bongbong: No. I thank you for taking the trouble. Thank you.

Toni: Thank you very much for allowing us into your beautiful home. You have a favorite part here in your house?

Bongbong: Well, yun, having grown up as a student, I got used to living in one room, so I have my desk in my bedroom so that I basically spend most of my time when I'm in the house. I was in there for seventy-two days. 

Toni: In your room?

Bongbong: In the room.

Toni: What were you doing inside the room?

Bongbong: Driving myself crazy basically. Well, when you're ill, you don't really mind the passage of time so that...

Toni: This, you're talking about the time when you got COVID.

Bongbong: Yeah, when I got COVID, so if you're not feeling bad, you don't really worry about it. I knew I was better because, say, I was getting very bored and just think, 'When can I get out of here? When can I get out of here?' 

Toni: Do you have a morning routine po, Sir Bong, like what time do you usually wake up?

Bongbong: I'm usually up by seven, but after cleaning my teeth, I go straight to the computer and look messages, and answer my mail, and see what's happening, what I missed from the night before.

Toni: A, so, hindi kayo nagbeabreakfast, Sir Bong?

Bongbong: I fast.

Toni: Is that the intermittent fasting?

Bongbong: The intermittent fasting. Seems to work for me. Sometimes, I forget that I fasted and haven't eaten, and I'll go and exercise.

Toni: What's your exercise po?

Bongbong: A, gym, 'cause my schedule's so crazy, I can't do it like before so that's what I do now, just to, how to stay fit, especially after COVID. It's my father's influence. My father was, before the term was invented, he was a health freak, and he would exercise at least, at least an hour a day. Sometimes, twice a day.

Toni: So, you would see him exercise when you were a kid?

Bongbong: He would make me, he would bring us to the gym and say, 'Come,' when we were little.

Toni: Since you talked about your father, when you were born, he was already in politics.

Bongbong: Yes. He became congressman in '47, and then senator in '57.

Toni: That's the time you were born.

Bongbong: That's the year I was born, yeah. Actually, I think he was always in politics, at least in his mind. When I became governor of Ilocos Norte, I got to talk, since I was spending all my time there, I got to talk to some of his friends, the people who were around him, when he was still living in Ilocos, and they said, 'Sixteen years old pa lang 'yan, may gabinete na 'yan e.'

Toni: Ah, really?

Bongbong: Oo. Talagang my father is one of those, I suppose, the most single-minded person I've ever known. If it had nothing to do with his work, he just wouldn't spend time on it.

Toni: Sa'n po kayo pinanganak?

Bongbong: San Juan, oo. Pinanganak ako do'n, so I, we lived in our house which is still there until 1965, when he won the Presidency, and we moved na to the Palace.

Toni: He won his Presidency in 1965, you were seven years old.

Bongbong: Yeah, because I remember, my first birthday in the palace was my eighth birthday.

Toni: What was that like?

Bongbong: It was amazing because my dad brought me pa to school. He woke me up, he came into my room, I was changing, going ready to go to school, and he said, 'Come. It's your birthday. I'll bring you,' so he brought me, and I cannot forget, and my classmates cannot forget, those two, yung ice cream, nagbebenta ng sorbetes, Magnolia, hindi, Selecta pa no'n, hindi ba?

Toni: Yes.

Bongbong: So, dalawa sila, so, my dad made it pakyaw. He said, 'O,' we paid them some money, and he said, 'O, lahat ng hihingi ng ice cream, libre a, at buong araw kasi birthday ng anak ko,' so I was the most popular guy.

Toni: Anong school po kayo pumapasok no'n?

Bongbong: La Salle Green Hills, in Ortigas, yeah.

Toni: So, at eight years old, you already lived in the Palace. What was that like, growing up in Malacañang, in the Palace?

Bongbong: Well, in the early days, masaya kasi ang daming mapupuntahan.

Toni: Daming rooms, ang laki.

Bongbong: Ang daming pupuntahan, ang dami mong, you go down to the kitchen, you mess around with the cooks, and you go to the sekyu, you mess around with them, play with them, you go to the park, so there's many places to go. 

Toni: Anong favorite place niyo no'n sa Malacañang?

Bongbong: I used to end up hanging out with the sekyu all the time, I guess, with the guys, you know. The Palace was so interesting but as the time went on, the private part of the palace became smaller and smaller, and the office part of the palace became bigger and bigger. There was that one time that I came out in my pajamas, and my father was approaching with a state visitor, so I said, 'Okay, that's not happening again.' You do not leave your room until you're completely...

Toni: Fully dressed.

Bongbong: You're ready to see people.

Toni: How was your relationship with your father nung time na 'yon?

Bongbong: My dad?

Toni: Was he a disciplinarian? Was he strict with you?

Bongbong: Yeah, he was. His only thing was study hard, yun lang talaga. Basta't work hard, study hard. That was his main thing. As long as you're studying hard, you're okay with him.

Toni: You got a lot of his traits kasi nga, 'di ba, you grew up watching him, sa stage, giving speeches, so marami sa mannerisms niya, even yung size niya, nakuha niyo, your waist.

Bongbong: Yeah, ang katawan namin are remarkably similar, from shoe size, to waist, everything. That's why I was one of the lucky ones that when binibigyan siya ng regalo, I would raid his closet. My mannerisms, especially, speaking, is very much my dad's. Siyempre, from the time I was very small, we were already there in the back, watching him make speeches, and he would teach a little bit about modulation and everything but, voice modulation and things like that, but mostly, what he would insist upon if when we started having to speak was that learn it, don't read. The one, that thing that also, that everybody says is my voice, is that we have a same, same voice.

Toni: 'Di ba po, when your dad was President, sinasama niya kayo sa lahat ng kanyang mga visits in different parts of the world, and you have met some of the most powerful and influential people. You have even met the Royal Family.

Bongbong: Yes. Yes, yes. Some of the funniest parts would be my mom would call and says, 'I'm going to meet the Generalissimo Franco in Spain. Want to come?' Of course. Get out of school, number one, 'di ba, and we'd go. 'I'm going to see the Pope. Sama ka?' Sama kami. I think it was a conscious effort of my parents to expose us because even 'pag the travel, like the, they would go to the provinces, or they would go to, especially, mga bagyo, yung mga gano'n, sinasama lagi kami. We're always there, so I think it was my parents, that they really wanted us to see everything.

Toni: Sino po yung nameet niyo that made a huge impact in your life, na hindi niyo makakalimutan?

Bongbong: Madami masyado. I've met most of the Popes. I've met most of the Secretary Generals of the UN. In fact, I've met them all since U Thant. Si Indira Gandhi was one who really impress me, and Maggie Thatcher.

Toni: What do you think is the greatest lesson that you have learned from your father?

Bongbong: Oh my. I learned so much from him, it's hard to... When it comes to work, marami siyang, you know, like things, like when you walk into a room, the guy, if you're walking into a negotiation, whoever knows more, wins, so I've always held that. Always work hard, hard work is always rewarded. Things like that. He was not the type to sit you down and said, 'Alam mo, anak, ang ganito, ganyan,' hindi. Basta siya, 'Eto yung gagawin natin.' He would be with his cabinet members, some, and they would be talking about something pretty important, and he would suddenly turn to me, 'What do you think?'

Toni: Ilang taon kayo no'n?

Bongbong: I was sixteen, seventeen, he was already turning to me and say, 'What do you think?' But you know, when he asks you a question, it's not because he wants to know the answer. He wants to know if you know the answer. He's testing you, kasi nung inaral na niya 'yan, alam na niya 'yan, a, so come prepared.

Toni: From your mother naman po?

Bongbong: From my mother, well, of course, it's the sort of things, my love of music, of the arts, because she's, our house always had music playing. She was the one who used to take us to the theater, take us to museums. It really was her point of joy, it really was the art, were the arts. It wasn't normally, we didn't have a normal, there wasn't such a thing as a normal day. Everyday was different. What formed the way I do things is how my father or my mother would react. It's having watched both of them handling the problems that they were confronted with on a daily basis. I think that's what really made my own personality when it came to such things. I would say that the many incidents that I watched them handle, really taught me how to approach problems, how to take, you know, the challenges that inevitably come up.

Toni: Speaking of yung handling life situations and problems, when people were marching towards EDSA, how did your father handle that situation?

Bongbong: My father called me and he said, 'We have intelligence that this is about these people are moving, and this is that, and this is what we're going to do. I'm assigning you to work with the security to handle the defense of the Palace,' so from that day on, that's all I was doing. From that point, that Wednesday, afternoon, nakauniporme na 'ko e, because I just come out of the military also at that time, kaya ako nilagay e, sabi niya, 'Ikaw ang in charge sa defense ng Palasyo.'

Toni: How was your father nung time po na 'yon?

Bongbong: So, he reverted back to his commander mode, wartime commander mode, again, very calm, very measured, and...

Toni: So, nung nangyayari po yung rally sa EDSA, ano yung sinabi niya sa inyo?

Bongbong: I remember, say, you know, the, 'Yung kalaban,' sabi ko, 'Ginigiyera na tayo,' and he answered me, he said, 'I have spent my whole life defending Filipinos. I cannot hurt them now.' That was it. Baba. 'Put your guns down,' saying, 'We're not shooting anyone.'

Toni: Were you scared nung time na 'yon?

Bongbong: No, I wasn't. I can't say as I was because militarily, we had an advantage. It's just he chose not to fight, and then they took us to Clark. When we got to Clark, dinisarmahan kami, lumipad na kami sa Guam, which is what happened.

Toni: How was your father when you were in Guam?

Bongbong: He was ill. He wasn't well. He wasn't sleeping, but again, he was still his own self, he was in that mode, he was in commander mode.

Toni: Was there ever a time that he showed his vulnerability to you?

Bongbong: He's a professional so, 'Basta't kung anong kailangang gawin, gagawin natin.' He didn't shook away from any kind of challenge. Basta't kung ano, hinaharap niya talaga, that, basta yung the opposite of vulnerable.

Toni: Solution-based.

Bongbong: Absolutely. Mission-oriented ang tawag sa military, mission-oriented. 

Toni: How was your last moments with your father before he passed away?

Bongbong: They called us. I was in San Francisco, and the doctor started calling, and actually, it's my sister who said, 'You better come back,' so I rushed to the first plane back to Hawaii, and that's it, and he had a kind of a seizure, his heart failed, and we were watching, just watching him, trying to revive him, but he didn't make it, and I remember, I was hugging Irene, and we're looking, 'cause we were asked to leave the room, while the doctors attended to him, so we were watching him through the window.

Toni: What was his last words with you na tumatak sa inyo talaga before he passed away?

Bongbong: I remember, just before he died, he opened his eyes and he just looked at me, and, you're gonna make me cry, he just looked at me, and he close his eyes again, and all the alarms start to went off, all the machines started beeping, and then all the nurses came in, all the doctors came in, we were hustled out of the room, and that was it, so there were no last words but...

Toni: There was that last look.

Bongbong: There was that last look that I will never forget, and, God, look what you're doing. People will think I'm a crybaby.

Toni: It meant the world, that last look.

Bongbong: It's a very, very sad memory, and sad and happy at the same time because at least, meron siyang last na connection with me, with us. I could see he really looked, and he knew who I was, and he knew that perhaps he was going, so...

Toni: Parang that look was a farewell.

Bongbong: Parang gano'n. 

Toni: A lot of people were saying that your father, Ferdinand Marcos, was the best President the Philippines has ever had, and to some people, he was the worst President the Philippines has ever had, but if I were to ask you, what's the best and worst thing about him?

Bongbong: The best thing about him, as a leader, as a President, he was an actual leader. I think the problem now we have is that we lack leadership. You cannot be President following surveys, which is a tendency that we have, not only here, but in other countries as well. Meron siyang vision talaga, 'I want the Philippines to be this place in ten years. I will make the Philippines this good by that year.' Meron siyang vision, and, 'Ano yung galing ng Pinoy, yun, dun tayo, dun tayo, dun yun, pagandahin natin,' tulad niyan. He had a very clear understanding of what needed to be done, and how to do it, and that, I think, was his best quality as a leader, which was born of his experience, born of his smarts, born of his love for the Filipinos and Philippines. The worst, I don't know how you would describe, because he had all the qualities of a good leader, that a good leader will have, should have, rather. He took any job that he had very, very, very seriously, very serious, very serious person, and that sense of focus, maybe that's the worst, because everything was put aside. If it does not help the Presidency, it does not help the country, if it is not in the national interest, 'You keep it to yourself, because I don't have time for that. That's all I have to do,' not to say that he was a negligent father, but, oh, he was always very doting with us, but, you know, that was his life, that was everything that he was about. Worst in the sense kasi kami, mga anak nga, we wish we could spend more time with him, and we should, so, 'Ano ba,' you know, we're, you know, 'We don't see him anymore.' Actually, my mom, the same thing, they're always out doing something, even when we'd come home, from when we were going to school abroad already, pag-uwi namin, sabi, 'Umuwi pa tayo, we don't naman see our parents,' but, you know, that was the kulang part in our ano because they were just so busy, there was just so much to do, and so many things to...

Toni: How do you handle ho, Sir Bong, yung mga criticisms, yung mga bashers, yung mga hate, the anti-Marcoses?

Bongbong: Well, we're in political life. Can you find me a person in political life who has no critic, who has no hater, who has no bashers, who has no critic, and like you can't find one. Nobody won an election with one hundred percent of the vote, no one, ever, anywhere, unless they cheated, so that's something that we learn to live with very, because I remember very well, when he was Senate President, I remember being in Baguio for some reason, and everyday, the newspaper would be, 'Oust Marcos, oust Marcos,' basta binabanatan siya nang husto. I'm talking young, I was quite young.

Toni: Ilang taon po kayo no'n?

Bongbong: I must have been six, five, six years old.

Toni: So, six pa lang...

Bongbong: Because nagbabasa na 'ko e. You could read already, so...

Toni: And you would get affected nung time na 'yon siyempre?

Bongbong: Hindi ko maintindihan ba't galit sila sa daddy ko. Ba't galit na galit sila? E, siyempre, babasahin ko yung dyaryo, 'di ko naman naintindihan kung ano yung pinag-uusapan nila so I remember asking and saying, 'Ba't ganun? Ba't sila galit kay Daddy? Mabait naman si Daddy e.' 

'A, hindi, ganyan sila...'

Toni: And to this day, Sir Bong...

Bongbong: Kaya nga...

Toni: The mere surname, merong mga talagang 'pag narinig Marcos... 

Bongbong: A, oo.

Toni: But your father po, how did he handle that, yung mga, 'Oust Marcos,' yung mga...

Bongbong: Wala 'yon. Trabaho lang tatay ko, trabaho lang. That's nothing. Sabi niya, 'I've been called worse names. I've been called every name in the book. Hahaha,' tawa siya nang tawa. If you're making your enemies angry, you're doing a good job, and you go back to Churchill, 'If you haven't made any enemies, you haven't done anything.' Ganyan talaga e. E, 'yan buhay ng pulitika e, wala ka talaga, hindi mo maiiwasan yun e, kahit yung pinakapopular. Tignan mo, our President now, if you look at the surveys, antaas-taas ng popularity, ng approval rating at lahat, meron pa ring galit sa kanya, meron pang minumura siya, meron pang kung anu-anong sinasabi. Hindi mawawala 'yan e, and we learn that lesson very, I did anyway, I learned that lesson very early on.

Toni: At the age of six.

Bongbong: Mga gano'n. I remembered, I remember, yeah. We will look in the history books, when was the time, when he was Senate President, ang gusto talaga siyang tanggalin. They just kept attacking him, and attacking him. I remember, I remembered, still in my head e, I can still see the newspaper, 'Oust Marcos. Out, Marcos, out,' yung ganun, puro ganun na yung headline.

Toni: At the age of six, ano? Parang ang agang-aga na awakening 'yon and realization about life, 'di ba?

Bongbong: E, it had to happen because buhay talaga namin yun e. It's been that way since, it's been that way since before we were born, 'di ba?

Toni: Speaking of history, Sir Bong, if you were to change one thing about the Philippine history, what would you change?

Bongbong: The colonizations. Sana hindi na tayo nacolonize. I would do away with the Spanish colonization, the three hundred years, and all the other, the Americans essentially colonized us too, and I think that Filipinos deserve better than to be second class citizens.

Toni: Your mom has been very vocal about you following the footsteps of your father, hindi ho ba, so where do you see yourself next year?

Bongbong: As long as I'm functioning, I consider myself to be in public service. I hue close to my father's idea that yun, it seems we were put on this Earth to serve, and so that's what I'll do. If that is my purpose in life, if that's what God wants for me to do, then that's what I will continue to do, hangga't I'm functioning. It's never finish kasi e, it's never finished. It's always, there's always one other thing that you can do, there's always a little bit more that you can do.

Toni: So, if it's not yet finish what it is, what is it po that you want to continue doing?

Bongbong: Helping. Just make the Philippines better. Well, right now, to be specific, is to, we're in the middle of this crisis. We have to improve our vaccination rollout para talagang, because it seems to be the only solution. In the very beginning of the pandemic, I was trying to find a way that you could balance opening the economy and staying safe. With the vaccines coming, what really needs to be done now is to have a plan for the re-emerging Philippine economy. What do we do? How do we, how, pa'no natin bubuhayin ulit yung mga nalugi?

Toni: In the eyes of public, you have lived a privileged life, and parang iniisip nila, you seem to have everything. If there's one thing that you think that you don't have, ano po yun?

Bongbong: I agree with that public perception. I, well, in earlier part of my life, the privileges we enjoyed, we grew up in comfort, we are never giddied for anything. What is it that's kulang pa in my...

Toni: Do you think that you don't have, because you seem to have everything.

Bongbong: I'm jealous of you. I wanted to be ano, I wanted to be a musician.

Toni: Sabi nga po ng anak niyo, if you weren't in politics, rock star nga daw po kayo.

Bongbong: Ay, iyon, 'yon, dalawa lang ang ambisyon ko nung maliit ako, mga when I was about twelve years old, maging rock star, maging astronaut.

Toni: Sinong idol niyong rock star nun?

Bongbong: Stones, MacGyver. Well, The Beatles, all of them, all of them, The Who. I became friends with all of them, we mentioned it. Oo, nakilala ko silang lahat. Siyempre, nakatunganga 'ko na ganun because ano...

Toni: If you were to introduce the name Marcos to the new generation, how would you introduce yourself to them?

Bongbong: Well, I'm the son of the longest-lasting President who brought the Philippines into the modern world really, and we became, and he, who brought to the Philippines a sense of nationhood. I'd been asked many times, 'What's the most important part of your father's legacy?' I'd say the most important part is that sense of nationhood, when we were proud to be Filipino, and we would go out, abroad, and say, 'Pilipino kami.' I think that was the first thing, and at a small part of that was OPM, was the Original Pinoy Music, because that's the culture, yung you learn about, 'Ah, this is what it means to be a Pinoy. This is what it means to be Filipino,' and that happened during his time, and if you ask me, despite all of the successes that he had, built all the roads, the schools, educational system, the medicals, medical, that's all wonderful, and something that we should continue to do. It's that sense of nationhood, and we were united as one. We were all working in the same direction, working in the same direction, and we've lost that a little bit, and that's what I would like to, that's how that I would introduce myself. I would like to restore that. Nasa ugali naman ng Pilipino na matulungin e. Nasa ugali natin yung bayanihan. Kailangang gisingin lang ulit e. Kailangang magtulungan uli tayo. Medyo nakikita natin during the pandemic, random acts of kindness.

Toni: Bayanihan, tulungan.

Bongbong: And just because Pinoys are just great, I mean, Pinoys are the best. They're the kindest, most gracious, most masipag, most resourceful. We never give up, you know. Masyado nang mahirap, gagawa ng joke. Sa'n ka naman nakakita ng ganun? Hirap na hirap na, nagpapatawa pa.

Toni: Very resilient.

Bongbong: Tough. We're tough, not in that arrogant or aggressive way, we're tough in a very gentle, Asian way, which is for me, the most remarkable quality that Filipinos have. We're the best. Pinoys are the best. You can bring them anywhere, ask them to do anything, basta't you, back upan mo, basta't you support them, they'll do good. You cannot put a Pinoy down.

Toni: 'Yan.

Bongbong: They won't stop, especially, 'pag it, for the family.

Toni: So, that's the best quality of a Pinoy. If I were to ask you naman po, what's your best quality?

Bongbong: My best quality? It's against my nature to...

Toni: But how are you po as a husband? How would you describe yourself as a husband?

Bongbong: Me? As a parent, as a husband, I think I'm pretty typical, that I'm, you just, again, you're just trying to do your best, you're always trying to do your best. Of course, you never succeed, you don't succeed every time, but that's it, that's all you can do. That's a good question, how do I describe myself as a husband? I'm now trying to compare myself with friends of mine. I think, at this stage, in our family's life, it's really to be close to the family, as close to the family as you can, so even if you're working for something much, much bigger than just your family, but still remains the focus of your life. I'm, you know, when you retire, I could retire and just give up, but what will my kids think, 'di ba? 'Tinamad na yung tatay namin. Ayaw na e.'

Toni: Speaking of tired, what are you tired hearing about?

Bongbong: Lies. I'm really tired of hearing lies that have already been disproven, not necessarily about my family, about me. Some people have the idea that if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth, and so they keep repeating things. It's just tiresome, pero like I said, may pagkamanhid na rin ako, kasi alam ko naman, ganyan naman talaga e. Kung ayaw mong cinicriticize ka, 'wag kang, don't go into public life. When people are spouting lies, I always tell myself, 'Don't worry about it. You have the advantage, you know the truth,' so I take refuge in that.

Toni: And your truth is?

Bongbong: And the truth is not what you're saying. It's entirely something else. Just think of the things that were being said in '86, February, March, April. With all the things na sinasabi, 'Nakadiskubre kami ng gan'to, ng ganyan-ganyan,' all of them have been proven as lies, pero sige pa rin. Sige pa rin sila. O, sige, kung talagang 'yan ang gusto niyo, gusto niyo sayangin ninyo yung buhay niyo diyan, 'di sige, that's your business. Tama si Taylor Swift, you know, 'Haters gonna hate,' right? That's what they are. That's what they do is hate.

Toni: So, what do you focus on now po?

Bongbong: Work. I guess, that's where we're headed. 

Toni: Back to work.

Bongbong: What else are you going to do? The best thing that you can do is to help other people, is to help many other people, as many people as you can, and what could be better than that? I can't think of anything that could be better than that.

23 January 2022

The Toni Gonzaga Interviews, 2021 (Leni)

source: https://youtu.be/SyBMFvoVtbI
disclaimer: this is not an official transcript.
average reading time: 18 mins

note:
before remarking on errors,
check the audio from source first.

Toni: Alam niyo po, isang malaking karangalan na napagbigyan niya tayo ngayong araw. She sits on the second highest position in our country, and it's truly an honor na makausap ko po ang ating Vice President Ma'am Leni Robredo. Hi po, Ma'am Leni.

Leni: Hi, Toni. Thank you for having me today.

Toni: Naku, kami po ang nagpapasalamat na pinapasok niyo po kami sa inyong napakagandang opisina, na para nang warehouse sa dami ng donation.

Leni: I was about to say, kasi talagang maganda yung office namin na 'to pero since the pandemic started, ganito na yung itsura niya.

Toni: Andami pong nagpapadala ng donations.

Leni: Mm-mm, at ano 'yon, more than a year na, tuluy-tuloy pa din.

Toni: Anong oras po nagsisimula ang araw niyo, Ma'am Leni?

Leni: Ngayong pandemic, seven o'clock na kasi meron kaming tele-medicine, and yung duty ko, gabi. Tumutulong ako sa emergency, so nagduduty ako mga until two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning, so ngayon, mas late na 'ko gumigising, pero ngayon, parang nakabalik na kami sa normal, so eight, nine, andito na 'ko.

Toni: Binasa ko po, ang ganda pala ng totoong pangalan ninyo: Maria Leonor Santo Tomas Gerona-Robredo. Ang ganda po ng pangalan niyo. Sa'n daw po nakuha yung pangalan na 'yon? Very makabayan.

Leni: Oo nga e. Ay, alam ko, yung Leonor, pangalan yun ng grandmother ko on my father's side. Namatay siya, nine years old pa lang yung dad ko, so sa kanya 'ko pinangalan. Yung Maria, lahat kasi kami, yung pati yung sister kong sunod sa 'kin, may Maria din, tapos yung Santo Tomas was my mother's maiden name.

Toni: Tapos judge po pala ang tatay ninyo.

Leni: Mm-mm, for a long time. Ano siya, regional trial court judge until he retired at the age of seventy. 

Toni: Yung nanay niyo po, anong trabaho noon?

Leni: Teacher. Yung nanay ko taught from the time she was eighteen, so from the age of eighteen until she was eighty-two, she was teaching. Nagretire siya at the age of sixty-five, pero after her retirement, nagtuturo pa din siya sa graduate school.

Toni: Strikto po ba ang tatay niyo?

Leni: Strikto. Strikto yun tatay ko pero parang hindi gaya ni Daddy Bono. Strikto siya in the sense na very present sa buhay namin. Ang gusto ko sabihin, he was okay na lalabas kami, okay siyang lalabas ako nang gabi pero siya yung driver namin. Judge na siya at that time. Parang wala naman kaming curfew pero siya maghahatid sa lahat.

Toni: Daddy's girl po kayo?

Leni: Oo, sobra.

Toni: Kasi eldest po kayo, 'no?

Leni: Eldest.

Toni: Yes. Ang mga eldest po kasi, merong 'yan sense of responsibility, bata pa lang, hindi po ba?

Leni: Totoo, totoo, saka ako lang kasi sa aming magkakapatid yung nag-abogado.

Toni: Opo.

Leni: So, siguro, tingin ng daddy ko, ako yung extension niya.

Toni: Yes, opo, pero nung bata po kayo, ano talaga yung pangarap niyo?

Leni: Ako, mag-abogado. Ay, 'di siguro pangarap, pero parang naimpose kasi siya sa 'kin. Naalala ko, nung maliliit pa kami, parang sa 'min, tatlo kaming magkakapatid e, parang sinasabi ng parents ko na ako yung pinakamasipag mag-aral, pero nung bata pa kami, ako yung sobrang hilig magbasa. Mahiyain ako e. 

Toni: Introvert po kayo?

Leni: Sobra, kaya yung kuwento mo na tahimik ka din, ta's minsan, napapagkamalan ka na mataray.

Toni: Opo.

Leni: Actually, very introverted ako.

Toni: Pero nung college po, you took a degree in economics sa UP Diliman, 'di ba?

Leni: Oo. Ang nangyari no'n, nung year na naggraduate ako from college, nag-EDSA.

Toni: Opo, Revolution.

Leni: So, dapat dederetso 'ko ng law school e. Parang all my life, yun na talaga yung plano, pero alam mo, sa UP kasi, naging very active ako sa mga demonstration. Parang ramdam na ramdam ko yung from the time that Ninoy was assassinated, hanggang sa EDSA, parang ramdam na ramdam ko na I was part of it, so nung nangyari yung EDSA Revolution, gusto ko nang magtrabaho sa gobyerno. 

Toni: Ilang taon po kayo no'n?

Leni: Twenty-one. So, sabi ko, gusto kong magtrabaho sa gobyerno. Akala ko hindi papayag yun tatay ko. After graduation, nagpaalam ako. Pumayag. Pumayag siya pero ang agreement namin, one year lang. Sabi niya, 'Sige, subok ka nang one year, pero maglalaw school ka na after.' Yun yung usapan, and nameet ko yung asawa ko.

Toni: Yes, sa Bicol River Basin Development Program. Siya po ang parang...

Leni: Siya yung boss.

Toni: Siya yung boss niyo. Researcher po kayo no'n?

Leni: Oo, economic researcher ako. He was much older than I am. Seven years older siya.

Toni: Nameet niyo po siya, twenty-one kayo?

Leni: Twenty-one ako so twenty-eight siya that time.

Toni: Twenty-eight siya no'n.

Leni: Mm-mm. Natakot ako sa kanya pero naimpress ako during the interview.

Toni: Dahil po?

Leni: Kasi, meron na 'kong dala na recommendation later from the governor. Pagpasok ko sa kanya, parang nakakunot na kaagad yung noo niya, for an interview. Hawak-hawak niya yung recommendation letter nung governor, ta's ang tinatanong niya sa 'kin, 'What's this?' Tapos ako, nung una, hindi ko pa gets, parang napakaslow ko at that time, so ilang beses ako nagtanong, 'Sir, what do you mean?' Ta's pinakita niya sa 'kin, ta's parang binuhusan ako ng tubig. Ta's parang sinasabi niya sa 'kin, 'Bakit kailangan nito? 'Di ba umuwi ka?' Parang, ''Di ba, sinabi mo dun sa application mo na umuwi ka because you wanted to be part of the change that was happening? Ta's eto? Eto yung pinaglaban natin e.' Yun yung sinabi niya so akala ko hindi ako matatanggap. Parang on hindsight, tingin ko, dun ako naimpress, dun ako naimpress kasi kalakaran naman talaga sa maraming mga government offices yung irerecommend ka ng kakilala, ta's parang eye-opener din siya sa 'kin na, 'Oops, nakakahiya pala yung ginawa ko.'

Toni: So, ilang years po niyo siya naging boss?

Leni: Ay, ano, sandali lang. 

Toni: Sandali lang.

Leni: Kasi, naalala ko, nag-apply, first time ko siya nameet, June. Natanggap ako, August na, tapos the first time he asked me out was September. Sobrang impressed ako no'n kasi parang masyadong old-fashioned.

Toni: Traditional po ang asawa niyo, sabi niyo e.

Leni: Oo, sobra. Tapos nung tumawag siya sa phone for the first time, siyempre, ako, 'Sir,' kasi boss ko yun e. Parang ang tinanong niya, kung nandun yung parents ko, so sabi ko, 'Andito,' so nagpapaalam siya, 'Can I come?' Sabi ko, 'Bakit, Sir?' kasi parang sila ng dad ko, magkakilala sila e, so sabi ko, 'What about?' Sabi niya, gusto niya sana 'ko imbitahin. Bago niya 'ko imbitahin, gusto niyang mag-ask ng permission from my parents, so yun, pero after nung first na, after nung concert na yun, parang everyday na siya bumibisita sa bahay namin. Before Christmas, pinag-uusapan na namin, kasal. Ano yun, sobrang whirlwind siya. 

Toni: Oo nga po. Yun po yung description niyo dun sa love story niyo, it's a whirlwind romance.

Leni: Yes, kasi gusto niya nang mamanhikan nang Christmas.

Toni: So, ininterview niya kayo, June. Nahire kayo nung August. September, he asked you out. December...

Leni: Gusto niya nang mamanhikan, so hindi pumayag yun dad ko, so sinabihan ko siya na, 'Huwag ka na magpumilit. Hindi talaga payag yun dad ko,' tapos naalala ko, magkakaro'n ng congressional, parang the first congressional elections, so sinabi nung asawa ko na, 'Okay, so, hindi muna 'ko pupunta, pero after the elections, dadalhin ko na yung parents ko kahit ayaw nung dad mo,' so ganun nga yung ginawa niya. Right after the elections, dala niya na yung magulang niya, so wala nang choice yung dad ko.

Toni: Pero may pinangako po siya sa tatay niyo, 'di ba?

Leni: So, sinabi ng asawa ko na, Judge pa yung tawag niya sa daddy ko nun before, 'Judge, kahit po mag-asawa na kami, I will make sure na mag-aabogado pa din yung anak niyo,' and he made do with the promise kasi right after nung, right after siya mamanhikan, inenroll niya na 'ko sa law school, kasi nung naengage kami, nagresign ako from the office, kasi unethical e, 'di ba? Parang yung boss yung fiancé mo.

Toni: Ano po yung isang bagay na nagustuhan niyo sa kanya?

Leni: Ako, yung very principled e. Nakita ko kung gaano kasipag, nakita ko kung gaano kasimple. Kahit yung early days pa lang, when we were just starting to date, alam ko na na eto yung gusto kong mapangasawa. Siya talaga yung nagpush sa 'kin na maging masaya ako. Ang gusto ko sabihin, masaya, hindi lang with him, pero maging masaya ako sa sarili ko, and I think that's very important, para alam niya na, siguro, I will be a happier wife if I was happy with myself. Dati kasi, nasa PAO ako, sa Public Attorney's Office. 'Pag ang Saturdays ko, whole day, nasa jail ako. Hindi siya nagrereklamo. In fact, merong one time na meron akong kliyente na mag-asawa, na nanganak, Christmas Eve, nanganak sa jail nang Christmas Eve.

Toni: Pumunta kayo?

Leni: Oo. Dun kami nag-Christmas Eve. Kasama ko yung asawa ko saka mga anak ko. 

Toni: Parang he was the kind of husband who allowed you to become a person you really wanted to be.

Leni: Oo, so, alam mo yun, parang walang, parang sa kanya, mahalaga lagi kung ano yung gusto ko.

Toni: So it must have been very difficult when August 18, 2012 happened.

Leni: Oo naman, sobra. 

Toni: So, August 18, nung morning, may naramdaman po ba kayo that, something different that day?

Leni: Wala. That particular Saturday, yung bunso namin, had a swimming competition. Wala pa, sa lahat ng mga anak ko, mga piano recital, violin recital, swimming, walang minimiss yung asawa ko, pero that particular Saturday na may swimming competition, pupunta siya ng Cebu. Pupunta siya ng Cebu because he was representing the President. He felt so guilty, na hindi siya makakarating sa swimming event, nang sinasabi niya na hahabol siya. Ever since, takot na takot ako sa plane rides. 

Toni: Ay, pareho po tayo.

Leni: Yung sa 'min, 'pag yung, alam mo yun, 'pag mag-eeroplano ako, parang two days bago no'n, may anxiety na ako.

Toni: Pareho po tayo.

Leni: So, 'pag mag-eeroplano 'ko, 'pag gumagalaw yung leaves sa treetops, ayaw ko na mag-eroplano, kasi gustong sabihin, mahangin, so, e, nung DILG secretary yung asawa ko, he had to ride small planes, mga choppers, so sobrang kontra ako. Hindi siya dapat mag-eeroplano kasi nasa Cebu siya. I told him, sabi, gusto niyang maghanap ng small plane para makabahol siya sa swimming competition, and I told him, ''Wag na kasi wala ka nang maaabutan,' kasi matatapos siya, hapon pa e, so ako, I was expecting na may ticket na siya, Cebu Pacific, back to Manila. So, umuwi na kami ng anak ko from the swimming competition. Nakita ko yung staff niya sa bahay namin. Sabi ko, 'Bakit andito kayo? Bukas pa siya dadating.' Sabi nung staff, 'Padating po siya ngayon.' Wala namang afternoon flight sa 'min at that time, so alam ko na magsasmall plane na naman siya. Tinawagan ko siya. I was reprimanding him. Sabi ko, 'Magbibiyahe ka daw ngayon, mag-eeroplano ka?' Sabi ko, 'Akala ko, nag-usap na tayo?' Sabi niya, 'Gusto kong humabol.' Nakasakay na daw siya. Ang sabi niya sa 'kin, 'No hurry, kasi mabagal naman yung plane, kasi maliit. Dadating kami...' Parang, hindi ko na masyado maalala pa, 4:20 yata. Parang mga 3:00 pa lang 'yon e. Right after I took a bath...

Toni: May naramdaman po ba kayo?

Leni: Wala pa, wala pa 'kong naramdaman. Nagdrive na 'ko papuntang airport. Yung airport was about fifteen or twenty minutes away. Nung malapit na 'ko sa airport, as in malapit na malapit na, tumawag siya, text pala muna, text muna. Sabi niya, pabalik yung plane sa Cebu. Dun na 'ko kinabahan, pero hindi pa masyado, pero all the time that I was driving home, I was calling him. Cannot be reached. Pagpasok ko ng driveway sa bahay, nagring yung phone niya. Sumagot siya, pero hindi niya ako pinasalita. Ang sabi niya lang, 'Ma,' kasi Ma yung tawag niya sa 'kin. 'Ma, Ma, tawagan na lang kita, may inaasikaso lang.' Sabi niya, may inaasikaso, so, okay. Sabi ko, 'Sige, tawag ka na lang.' Binaba ko na yung phone. Umakyat na 'ko sa kuwarto, so sabi ng anak ko, kasi bumalik ako, ''Asan si Papa?' Sabi ko, 'Ano, bumalik yung plane sa Cebu pero tatawagan daw tayo kung anong instructions.' Sabi ko nga sa anak ko, ''Di pagbalik, sama ka na, sama ka na pagsundo.' Siguro mga ten, fifteen minutes after nun, nung nakausap ko siya, tumawag yung security niya.

Toni: Shucks.

Leni: Oo, tumawag yung security niya. Ang tanong niya sa 'kin, 'Ma'am, nakausap mo ba si Sir?' Ang sabi ko sa kanya, 'Five minutes ago,' pero apparently mas longer, siguro mga fifteen minutes. Sabi ko, 'Bakit?' Sinabi niya na. Ang sabi niya, 'Ma'am, meron kaming nareceive na report na may sighting na may small plane na bumagsak sa dagat.'

Toni: So, nung sinabi po yun sa inyo?

Leni: Hindi pa nga nagsisink in e. 

Toni: Shucks.

Leni: Nung nakausap ko yung security, hindi pa. Ang sinabi ko lang, 'Sila kaya 'yon?' kasi hindi pa nagsisink in, so sabi nung security, 'Sana, Ma'am, hindi.' Binaba na yung phone. Sabi niya, 'I will update you once...' ano na, may balita na, pero when I put down the phone, that was when I realized na baka siya 'yon. When I put down the phone, parang, alam mo 'yon, yung parang nagjelly yung buong katawan ko.

Toni: Nanlambot.

Leni: Ta's tinitingnan ko yung anak ko, naglalaro on top of our bed, kasi nasa bedroom ako, ta's siyempre, hindi ko masabi, ta's sinabi ko na lang, 'Anak, magdasal tayo.' Sabi niya, 'Bakit?' Sabi ko, 'Parang may nangyari sa plane ni Papa.' Umiiyak na yung anak ko.

Toni: Ilang taon po siya no'n?

Leni: Twelve. So, sabi niya, 'Mama, punta tayo sa church.' Ta's sabi ko, 'Anak, hindi ko kayang magdrive,' tapos ang naisip ko na, siyempre, yung dalawa, yung dalawang andito. Tinatawagan ko yung panganay ko, nagriring lang yung phone, hindi sumasagot. Ayokong tawagan yung second kasi yung second yung closest.

Toni: Daddy's girl.

Leni: Mm-mm. Finally, nagreturn call si Aika, ta's sabi ko, 'Bakit hindi ka sumasagot?' Sabi niya, 'Nasa Araneta Coliseum ako, nanonood akong Ateneo-FEU game,' ta's, so, siyempre, ang hirap.

Toni: Ang hirap ibreak yung news.

Leni: Tapos e, I seldom call her, nagtetext lang ako. Sabi niya, 'Mama, may problema ba?' Sabi ko, 'Aiks, parang may, naaksidente yung plane ni Papa,' ta's umiiyak na siya. Sabi niya, 'Hindi puwede,' ta's sabi ko, 'Aiks,' pinapagalitan ko pa, 'Wala na tayong magagawa. Ang magagawa na lang natin, magdasal.' Ayon, parang ano na siya, parang...

Toni: Blur na lahat.

Leni: Blur na lahat, yung three days na nawawala, tapos sobrang ano siya, sobrang roller coaster yung emotions kasi, siyempre, dahil hindi pa nahahanap yung body niya, a part of you...

Toni: Hoping.

Leni: Is hope, hindi lang a part of you, pero parang ang feeling mo, buhay pa siya, pero ako, nung night na 'yon, alam ko na nawala na siya.

Toni: Nung August 18th, you felt it.

Leni: Mm-mm, oo. Parang everyone was still hoping, pero yung para sa 'kin, alam ko na nawala. Siguro, until now, hindi ako nakapaggrieve properly, kaya siguro, ang hirap magmove on. Pag-alis niya, alam mo yung parang sabitan ng damit na ginamit sa back ng door ng room, meron siyang isang denim pants saka isang parang basketball shorts, kasi nagtreadmill daw bago umalis, na naiwan do'n. Alam mo, until now, nandun pa siya. For the longest time, yung, siguro, mga seventy-five percent of the cabinet space was full of his clothes. Nasa Congress na 'ko, hindi ko pa kayang alisin, na yung mga clothes ko, ang iba, nasa maleta. Every time I would need, bubuksan ko yung maleta, kukuha ako, kasi nandun yung clothes niya, so I think hindi kami nakapaggrieve, pati mga anak ko, hindi kami nakapaggrieve nang maayos, kasi yung turn of events after the plane crash, sobrang bilis for us. Mahirap pala yung gano'n. Mahirap yung hindi mo cinonfront yung grief, kasi it feels like you cannot move on from...

Toni: Pero sabi po nila, when you lose a love one, specially, a very special person in your life, you never move on from the pain. You just learn to live...

Leni: Live with it. Ganun sa 'min, and parang sometimes, yung mga ordinary things, hindi siya yung big things e, hindi siya yung...

Toni: The smallest things.

Leni: Oo.

Toni: What are the smallest things that you, you miss.

Leni: Ako, yung everyday. Asawa ko kasi, hindi siya palalabas. Hindi siya, walang barkada, kami lang talaga. So, alam mo yun, yung everyday sa bahay, pati yung pagpanood ng TV, parang lahat mo maaassociate with him, 'Ay, sayang wala si Papa, na eto sana, magugustuhan niya.' Halimbawa, yung nagka-Netflix na, kasi before, wala pang Netflix, so nung nagka-Netflix na, sabi namin, 'Sayang, hindi niya inabutan yung Netflix.'

Toni: As a husband po?

Leni: Siguro, 'pag nagmimigraine ako, kasi grabe yung migraines ko, and 'pag nagmimigraine ako, kahit nasa office siya, tatawagan ko siya, kasi hindi na 'ko nadadala nung iniinom na gamot, so siya, meron siyang klaseng massage na tinuro sa kanya, yung parang pressure. Siya yung gumagawa nun, so nung wala na siya, wala nang gagawa.

Toni: Last year po, you posted something. Nung August 18, 2020, it was the eighth year of his death anniversary... 

Leni: Yes, magninine years na today.

Toni: And your caption was, 'It's like you never left,' so, you feel his presence to these days.

Leni: Saka siya kasi, may ano siya e, may visual na representation. Halimbawa, every time there is a birthday, or an anniversary, or we're going through a rough time, merong brown moth sa loob ng bahay namin, and alam mo 'yon, we live many floors up sa condo, pero may butterfly sa loob namin, na brown, and yung brown, ordinary, na brown moth, pero every time na, halimbawa, yung before I decided to run for the Vice Presidency, yung mga anak ko, iyak nang iyak nang several days. They didn't want. That was a very difficult time for us. During all that time, yung brown butterfly nasa amin, so, para sa 'min, parang...

Toni: He's watching over you.

Leni: 'Pag andiyan siya, source of comfort, na parang assurance na, 'Andito lang ako.'

Toni: Do you talk to the butterfly?

Leni: Oo. Ang halimbawa, yung latest, about, siguro, birthday niya ba 'yon o wedding anniversary namin? Andiyan na naman. So, nandun siya sa pintuan ng kuwarto namin. Nakita ko siya nung papasok ako nang gabi. 

Toni: Yung butterfly?

Leni: Oo. So, ako, sinabi ko, 'Pa! Akala ko, nakalimutan mo na kami,' ta's pagpasok ko sa pinto, sinabi ko, 'Gusto mong sumama sa loob?' Hindi naman siya umalis. Hindi siya pumasok sa kuwarto. Nandun lang siya sa labas, pero laging gano'n, so para sa 'min, parang hindi siya umalis. 

Toni: So, nung 2015 po, everyone was against it, your whole family, your kids...

Leni: Oo.

Toni: Nagpriest counseling. They didn't want you to run for VP.

Leni: No.

Toni: What made you decide to pursue it?

Leni: Ako, ano lang, parang I felt na I had to. Ako, I've always been very religious. I was the type who'd go to church as often as I can, then narealize ko, when my husband died, religious lang pala ako, pero hindi ako, parang iba yung level ng spirituality.

Toni: Yes.

Leni: Pero yung namatay siya, umibang grabe, pero alam mo nung namatay yung asawa ko, parati na 'kong, 'Thy will be done.' Pati yung ano, pati yung fear ko of flying, nawala. O, ironically ha, kasi he died sa plane crash e, and I was so scared of airplanes. Nung nawala siya, alam mo, siyempre, during the campaign until now, I have to ride small planes, I have to ride choppers, na ang ibang mga chopper na sinasakyan ko, ang description ko nga, parang washing machine sa liit. Wala.

Toni: Nawala siya. 'Di ba sabi niyo po, Ma'am Leni, after your husband passed away, ang mga prayers niyo na, 'Thy will be done.' When you were proclaimed as the Vice President of the Republic of the Philippines, what was your prayer nung kinausap niyo uli si Lord?

Leni: Ang sinabi ko na lang, 'Hindi ko alam kung bakit pinapagawa Mo 'to sa 'kin, pero alam ko, na parang in my heart, alam ko, na eto yung gusto Mo sa 'king ipagawa. Hindi ko alam kung ano yung purpose pero bahala Ka na. Turuan Mo na lang ako.' Parang ganun lang yung aking mga dasal, na, 'Turuan Mo na lang ako, kung, para makayanan,' tapos when I was VP already, siyempre, maraming mga challenges na finace. Alam mo 'yon, yung, lalo na because I was at the receiving end of a lot of fake news. Alam mo 'yon, mahirap siya in the sense na, siyempre, nanay ako, widow ako, sasabihan ka na, 'You have an affair with a married man.' Ngayon, yung sinasabi ngayon, may affair ako with somebody na eighteen years younger than I am. Alam mo 'yon?

Toni: So, how do you handle that po?

Leni: Ako kasi, tingin ko, yung clear conscience is the best e.

Toni: Sabi niyo sa IG post niyo, it was a picture of your husband, and you were hugging him, and ang caption niyo, 'Sa isanlibong duda, ikaw ang nag-iisang tiyak.'

Leni: Parang ineencapsulate niya din kasi kung ano yung role na pinaplay ng asawa ko, kahit wala na siya, hindi lang sa buhay ko, pero sa buhay namin lahat, kasi parang, parang siya yung moral compass namin.

Toni: Yes.

Leni: Oo.

Toni: Kasi 'di ba po, when you became VP, there were so many narratives, lies, criticisms that were thrown at you. It's so beautiful that you said, against all the lies and doubts, he's the only one that remains true.

Leni: Oo, totoo 'yon. I think despite the difficulties, talagang parang blessing from above, na stinestrengthen yung character mo, kasi siguro, halimbawa, siguro, sa Vice Presidency, kung naging madali sa 'kin lahat, siguro, yung ginagawa namin ngayon, hindi, iba yung ginagawa namin, ang gusto ko sabihin, halimbawa, yung admin, very, parang very supportive...

Toni: Yes.

Leni: Siguro, hindi kami ganito kagigil.

Toni: Kamotivated and driven.

Leni: Kamotivated, kasi alam namin na wala kami e. Alam mo 'yon, na we're able to come up with a program where we partner with a private sector.

Toni: Ang ganda rin po nung sinabi niyo na natutunan niyo mula sa asawa niyo, na sabi niya, 'Everything that happens in our life is a preparation for what is to come and where we are today,' so kung kayo naman po ang tatanungin ko, what do you think was the biggest moment that really prepared you for the highest position that you have right now?

Leni: Ako, tingin ko, the death of my husband pa din, kasi yung death niya talaga, made me realize a lot of things. Kung merong lesson na nabigay sa 'kin yung death niya, yung sa 'kin, kung ano talaga yung nakatakda, yun yung mangyayari e. Because nakatakda na siya, yung obligasyon natin, kung ano yung binibigay sa 'tin ngayon, we make the most out of it, para at the end of it all, parang I can always honestly say na I did my best in whatever was given to me.

Toni: Ano po yung pinakaayaw at pinakagusto niyong sinasabi sa inyo ng tao? Dun po tayo muna sa pinakaayaw niyong naririnig na sinasabi sa inyo ng mga tao.

Leni: Siguro, na wala akong ginagawa, kasi marami nagsasabi, 'Kontra lang nang kontra, wala namang ginagawa.' Pinakaayoko 'yon dahil feeling ko, natatawaran masyado yung ginagawa ng staff namin, na nakikita ko. Ang karamihan kasi sa staff ng Office of the Vice President, mga young people, young idealistic people, pero yung mga staff ko dito, mga, halimbawa, 'pag may disaster, mga hindi na umuuwi.

Toni: Dedicated talaga po.

Leni: Sobra, so 'pag sinasabihan na wala akong ginagawa, feeling ko, insulto sa kanila, so I really take it personally. Ako, para sa 'kin, yung mga sinasabi niyo na meron akong boyfriend na eighteen years younger than I am...

Toni: Tinatawanan niyo.

Leni: Hindi naman totoo. Bahala kayo diyan, pero pagdating sa trabaho, 'pag sinabi mong hindi ako nagtatrabaho nang maayos, dinadamay mo yung lahat nung staff, and I think sobrang unfair 'yon, kasi wala naman silang pakialam sa pulitika ko, alam mo 'yon, so sa 'kin, okay na yung personal, pero 'pag trabaho, mag-aaway tayo.

Toni: Yung pinakagusto niyo naman pong naririnig na sinasabi sa inyo ng mga tao?

Leni: Siguro, pagdating sa work, yung malinis, malinis na pamamalakad. Halimbawa, recently, we were awarded for the third straight year, yung highest audit rating ng COA. Ang laking bagay no'n for us. 'Pag sinabi na, 'Oy, okay yung OVP kasi malinis yung pamamahala,' ang ano ko, affirmation, affirmation siya, nang hindi affirmation ko, pero affirmation siya ng lahat na ginagawa namin dito.

Toni: Ano po yung pinakafulfilling na part bilang isang Bise Presidente ng ating bansa?

Leni: Na we are able to change lives. Now that we're doing a lot of COVID response initiatives, halimbawa, dito sa, halimbawa, meron nag-COVID-positive, pinadalhan namin ng COVID care kit. Meron kaming monitoring team, tinatawagan sila two times a day. 'Pag okay na sila, 'pag magaling na sila, paminsan, magpapadala dito ng pagkain, tapos sasabihin na, 'Maraming salamat po kasi nabuhay ako dahil sa tulong niyo.' Yung ngayon kasi, may dalawa kaming housing projects na ongoing. Eto yung mga natabunan ng lahar during the typhoon saka yung mga naglandslide. May natapos na kaming isang village sa Marawi, and eto, privately funded. 'Pag binisita mo, tapos very proud sila na meron na silang bahay, mga sasabihin nila, 'Ma'am, thank you talaga sa inyo kasi never namin naimagine na sa buhay namin, magkakaro'n kami ng sariling house and lot, na we can call our own,' so sobrang ano 'yon, sobrang...

Toni: Fulfilling.

Leni: Fulfilling. Parang it makes all the sacrifices worth it despite the ugliness. I still think it has been a great honor and privilege to have been given this chance na makatulong. Nagkaro'n ako ng, kahit kaunti, nagkaro'n ako ng platform to help so para sa 'kin, at the end of it all, no matter how, yun nga, yung ugly the political environment is, at the end of it all, mas marami pa din yung ipapasalamat. 

Toni: What are you looking forward po?

Leni: Parang, ang iba, nahihirapan paniwalaan yung sinasabi ko na wala pa 'kong decision. Para sa 'kin, kung ano yung gusto ng Panginoon, mangyayari 'yon. 

Toni: When you step down po as the Vice President of the Philippines, ano po yung babaunin niyo sa buong experience niyo?

Leni: Ako, yung sa 'kin kasi, Toni, hindi ko siya tinitingnan na parang personal accomplishment. Yung honor sa 'kin is not the position or the title, pero yung honor sa 'kin is the platform that was given to me, to make a difference in the lives of the communities and the people we help, so baon ko, ako, number one ko talagang baon, yung quality ng civil servants that I work with, kasi yun talaga, I think, is the greatest gift that was given to me that I...

Toni: Mm-hmm.

Leni: Tapos yung pangalawa siguro, that I was given the opportunity to meet a lot of people, and go to so many places, na, siguro, kung hindi ako VP, hindi ko 'yon narating, and along the way, I've met so many inspiring people, and yung lesson talaga, yung appreciation sa power ng Office, in the sense na klaro sa 'kin na yung Office, ang obligasyon niya, mauplift yung buhay nung mga communities na pinuntahan namin. Ang sabi ko nga, kahit siguro wala na 'ko sa pulitika, pero maghahanap pa din ako ng ibang avenues na maipagpatuloy yung tulong na ginagawa namin do'n, so gano'n, sobrang grabeng blessing.

Toni: Yes, a big blessing, sa dami po ng mga accusations at mga sinasabi nila sa inyo, pero kung kayo naman po ang tatanungin ko, if you were to finish this sentence, 'Vice President Leni Robredo is?'

Leni: Is a Filipina who dreams of uplifting every other Filipino, Filipino and Filipina. Yung sa 'kin, yun naman, wala na 'kong ibang hinangad e. Wala na 'kong ibang hinangad kundi, na yung opportunities na available for me, sana maging available din sa kanila.